It takes a village…

…to kill democracy.

I will not provide any of the extensive links I could very well embed here.If you don’t know what I’m talking about here,well you’re probably part of the problem. I will not make any Clinton jokes other than the title. I will not renounce my citizenship,yet. I will shed a tear whether it is metaphoric or not time will tell.

America and the very essence of what it means to be American and to have a democracy is dead.

Port Chester NY,the DoJ,and assorted other entities that support cumulative voting and the trampling of majority rights should be remembered forever as the harbingers of Americas final decline.

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63 Comments

  1. PanAm says:

    The ruling and voting was strange and a lot worse… Thank you for making reference to it…

  2. Elric66 says:

    Starting to concede these marxists are even worse than the ones during FDR?

  3. Elric66 says:

    Wow, Im under moderation now?

  4. graychin says:

    Reports of the death of American democracy are premature. Alfie – get a grip!

    Cumulative voting seems to be the latest Faux Outrage in the right-wing noise machine. Why? I don’t know. It doesn’t seem all that sinister to me. Many US corporations even use it. (Those dirty Capitalists!) 😀

    All that cumulative voting does is to give interests who have less than 50.0001% of the vote a chance to elect one or two members to a governing body being elected “at large” – rather than being completely shut out. But no one EVER gets to CAST more votes than anyone else does under cumulative voting. It’s still “one man, N votes,” with N being constant for all voters.

    Alfie, you do realize that – don’t you?

    I know how scary the thought of having MINORITIES represented can be to some of us. So, apparently, does the Noise Machine.

  5. graychin says:

    I like the “top kill” cartoon. 😀

  6. Elric66 says:

    “I know how scary the thought of having MINORITIES represented can be to some of us. So, apparently, does the Noise Machine.”

    Looks like the asshole cant help but play the race card.

  7. Alfie says:

    elric: I don’t see how or why.

  8. Alfie says:

    1. US corporations are not democracies.
    2. What I recognize is that if a locality decides how to divvy up their locale the feds should be hands off. I also realize that population should be fully legal. I also do not believe in non English ballots. Does that make me racist? Maybe in your world. Cumulative voting circumvents democracy. I don’t watch Fox btw.

  9. graychin says:

    Elric has a rare form of Tourette’s Syndrome – he constantly blurts out “race card,” usually at inappropriate moments.

    Disapproving of non-English ballots doesn’t make you racist. I guess that you would simply prefer for someone to “help” non-English speaking citizens with their ballots rather than letting them read for themselves.

    In Oklahoma, ballots in the Cherokee language are available in some elections. Do you have a problem with that too?

    What I recognize is that if a locality decides how to divvy up their locale the feds should be hands off.

    So it’s not so much that you object to cumulative voting as that you object to the Feds giving orders to the locals? You would have fit in well in 1962 Mississippi – they agreed completely with that position. So – like Rand Paul, you have a problem with much of the 1960’s Civil Rights legislation? (On ideological grounds, of course – not racist ones.)

    Cumulative voting circumvents democracy.

    How so, when everyone gets to vote equally?

  10. Elric66 says:

    “In Oklahoma, ballots in the Cherokee language are available in some elections. Do you have a problem with that too?”

    Yes

    “Disapproving of non-English ballots doesn’t make you racist. I guess that you would simply prefer for someone to “help” non-English speaking citizens with their ballots rather than letting them read for themselves.”

    I prefer that they dont vote if they cant read the ballot.

  11. graychin says:

    Elric, I prefer that you don’t vote.

    But I can’t always get what I want. Neither can you.

  12. Alfie says:

    I don’t believe in poll helpers and as for Native Americans I believe in the sovereignty of there present day nations and even support their expansion. On the flip side I believe ballots should be in English only. Positions,issues,ballot initiatives should be translated though. As I’ve stated before I like the Brazil election system and support e voting with candidate pictures.
    Still not having the best real world life experience so my answers are admittedly scattered .

  13. Elric66 says:

    “Elric, I prefer that you don’t vote.”

    Of course you dont drone. You prefer only leftist drones that elect marxists.

    But you see, thats the difference between leftist morons like you and me. I just prefer people know the native language or they cant vote. You just dont want people that differ from your ideology dont vote.

    Again, you reveal yourself to be a leftist ******.

  14. graychin says:

    I don’t believe in poll helpers…

    Going to ban blind people from voting too?

  15. Elric66 says:

    “Going to ban blind people from voting too?”

    So if blind people who have a condition beyond their control need help voting, we need to have ballots in multiple languages because they are too lazy or arrogant to learn English?

  16. The part in the story that made it so striking for me was this:
    Although the village of about 30,000 residents is nearly half Hispanic, no Latino had ever been elected to any of the six trustee seats, which until now were chosen in a conventional at-large election. Most voters were white, and white candidates always won. [emphasis mine].

    So whites were the majority of the people voting and they were always the winning candidates. This goes in the “water is wet” category. And yet we seem to think it important to give more votes to a people who cannot seem to get motivated to get out and vote on their own. Hmmmm. Why have them vote at all? Why not declare that there is simply a latino seat on that body, and appoint someone to fill it? You’re already halfway there.

    Many US corporations even use it.

    Yes, but in many cases, people have chosen to own stock in corporations (the obvious exception being inheritors), and as such would generally like to have a say in the governance of their property. It isn’t the same as the government deciding that someone needs to have representation in you local governing bodies, and making it so with cumulative voting.

  17. Alfie says:

    I live in Mass. where the blind have a great lobby. If they need help to operate the election apparatus that is acceptable to me just like any other ADA accommodation.If they need help voting,too bad so sad. There is a distinction.
    The problem I have with poll workers ala booth assistance is they are sadly not to be trusted.

  18. graychin says:

    So a town is “nearly half Hispanic,” and no Hispanic has ever been elected to any of the six at-large trustee seats?

    Yep – that’s “majority rule” all right – 51% of the voters get 100% of the seats.

    You forgot to point out that those Hispanics CHOSE to live there, just as stockholders CHOOSE to own stock in a corporation. As such, they MIGHT like to have a say in the governance of – themselves. No taxation without representation – or something like that.

    This is a very old argument, and you guys are on the losing side. My former home town of Tulsa was partially coerced during the 1980’s into changing its form of city government by a threat that its “city commission” government would be overturned by the courts; All of the city commissioners had been elected at-large, and miraculously almost everyone elected came from the small “money belt” area of the city. They changed to a city council which elects nine members from nine different districts.

  19. graychin says:

    Again, you reveal yourself to be a leftist

    Reveal?

    Elric, are you just now figuring that out? I don’t exactly keep it a secret.

  20. Alfie says:

    You see gray you’re kinda moving the goal posts there. I could accept districts being a rule although I think it should have a min. population kicker.

  21. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “Yep – that’s “majority rule” all right – 51% of the voters get 100% of the seats.”

    I’m pretty sure that is known as “democracy.”

  22. Elric66 says:

    “So a town is “nearly half Hispanic,” and no Hispanic has ever been elected to any of the six at-large trustee seats?”

    So? I bet you didnt complain that 94 percent of the black population voted for al-Thuggy.

    Ever notice that no matter the topic the leftist drone places the race card?

  23. graychin says:

    Huck, that village is not a “democracy” like a New England town meeting. It’s actually a “republic.” One in which 51% of the voters get 100% of the representation on the governing body.

    Since the demographic of Republicans is disappearing (see my blog), I’m going to propose a Constitutional amendment providing that whichever party gets the majority of the popular vote gets to fill all 435 seats in Congress and all 100 seats in the Senate. What do you think?

  24. graychin says:

    There goes Elric’s “race-card Tourette’s” again. 😀

  25. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “Since the demographic of Republicans is disappearing (see my blog), I’m going to propose a Constitutional amendment providing that whichever party gets the majority of the popular vote gets to fill all 435 seats in Congress and all 100 seats in the Senate. What do you think?”

    I think that is a poor analogy because each seat in this town is filled by a person that was directly elected, not based on the election of the majority party.

    Nice try though.

    “You forgot to point out that those Hispanics CHOSE to live there, just as stockholders CHOOSE to own stock in a corporation.”

    And you forgot to point out that they are also free to leave that town if they are unhappy with its leadership, just as stockholders are free to sell off their holdings in a company and invest elesewhere when they are unhappy with its leadership.

    Or they can organize. BiC raises the perfect point, and you seem to be assuming that every eligible voter is voting. That the town has a 51% white majority is not nesseccarilly a direct correllation to the fact that most of its voters are white.

  26. Elric66 says:

    “There goes Elric’s “race-card Tourette’s” ”

    Your rebuttals get more moronic every time. I can see why you avoid debate with me. 🙂

    HF,

    The moron assumes that Republicans are only white. Only a race baiting moron would assume that.

  27. So, we had a court engage in social activism and multiculturalism in order to force “justice” on the people that actually chose to get off their butts and vote…

  28. graychin says:

    Here is a link to just one of the outlets for the right-wing noise machine that is stirring the pot on this latest case of faux outrage:

    http://www.infowars.com/federal-judge-cites-voting-rights-act-to-rig-election-in-new-york-state/

    Alfie – thanks for following their lead!

    Points to consider:

    The judge in question, Stephen Robinson, was appointed by George W. Bush.

    “Robinson is not breaking new ground here. As of November 2009, more than fifty communities in the United States use cumulative voting, all resulting from cases brought under the federal Voting Rights Act. ”

    The “cumulative voting” remedy was suggested by village officials.

    Finally – the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965 with strong support from both parties, including all Republican Senators except Strom Thurmond and John Tower. The Act was renewed in 2006 (BEFORE the Democratic takeover) by votes of 390-33 in the House and 98-0 in the Senate. The renewal was signed into law by George W. Bush on July 27, 2006.

    So – why the sudden outrage coming from the Right over cumulative voting? Where does the orchestration come from? Can someone please explain? It’s as if you just woke up and had never heard of any of this before – until you heard it from_________. (Fill in the blank yourself.)

  29. Elric66 says:

    “The judge in question, Stephen Robinson, was appointed by George W. Bush.”

    So? We arent drones that march in lock step with any party. Bush didnt secure the border. Does that mean we support an open border? Friggin moron.

  30. Tex Taylor says:

    Sorry gang, but Graychin’s tired braggadocio of minority rights is a very thin veil. If there’s ever been a better example of preaching, “Do as I say and not as I do”, it’s this.

    The man retired and purposely chose to live in one of the most segregated parts of America. An America that has exactly ZERO BLACKS in his zip code.

    Graychin is big on lip and short on do. I have never read a more self-serving, hypocritical phony on a blog than old Gray. And his tired demographic spiel is worn out too. Its premise falsely assumes that birth rates by race stay static. Guess he’s not familiar with the new trend of large Evangelical families, both Catholic and Protestant. Won’t it be a bummer when he looks up from eternity and see all his predilections for commiehood never came true in America.

    Elric is right Graychin, you two-bit phony. You play the race card as some badge of honor, when in reality your own demographic says you’re closer to wearing a Klan hood.

  31. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Thank you. In my experience, its the ones that play the race card as a default are the ones that turn out to be the most racist.

  32. graychin says:

    Tex, you can try to make it all about me if you want, but you can’t do it. It’s not about me. Talking about me is just an attempt to change the inconvenient subject.

    The Voting Rights Act is no left-wing conspiracy. And it’s nothing new – it’s been around for 35 years. No one has opposed it in all that time except Dixiecrats, their successors (Southern Republicans), and a few libertarian oddballs here and there.

    Now all of a sudden, the right-wing noise machine has its underwear in a bunch over Port Chester, New York. Have millions of Rip Van Winkles awakened simultaneously?

    What’s it all about, Alfie?

  33. Alfie says:

    gray…you come here and accuse me of being a Fox/Alex Jones disciple in direct contradiction to what I have respectfully and honestly told you.
    When I opened this post with I will not provide any of the extensive links I could very well embed here. I could have used the NYT,the Daily News,or LoHud.They all reported on this before it took off.
    I look forward to the vote tallies. Until then I have nothing else to say to you.

  34. Alfie says:

    You added while I was typing.
    Have millions of Rip Van Winkles awakened simultaneously?
    1.Yes especially since this time the story has been so WIDELY covered. Go figure people get interested,that’s one of those great things in a democracy.
    2. I reiterate that I await the official tallies. I look forward to seeing the “plumping”. I am not alone as one of the plaintiffs does also.
    3. Marino seems like a nice guy why couldn’t he get popularly elected? Lots of crickets on that one.
    4. Joseph Kenner also won. He is a Republican,an incumbent and black.

  35. Elric66 says:

    “you come here and accuse me of being a Fox/Alex Jones disciple in direct contradiction to what I have respectfully and honestly told you.”

    Drones dont respect honesty and respect. Perhaps someday you will understand that.

  36. graychin says:

    Alfie, I didn’t mean to imply that the source that brought this story to your attention was of ill repute. Sorry if I gave offense. That was not my intent.

    But why has this story gone viral all of a sudden? After 45 years of the Voting Rights Act and an uncontroversial renewal of it in 2006, and after 50 other communities using cumulative voting, all of a sudden “America and the very essence of what it means to be American and to have a democracy is dead.” Huh?

    You simply got caught up in the orchestrated outrage. It’s easy to do in the age of the internet.

    But who orchestrates the outrage?

  37. Elric66 says:

    “But who orchestrates the outrage?”

    The racist white conservatives of course. Just say it race baiter.

  38. Tex Taylor says:

    Alfie, I didn’t mean to imply that the source that brought this story to your attention was of ill repute. Sorry if I gave offense. That was not my intent.

    Oh Gawd. You know, as an adversary Graychin I’d show you a little more personal respect and minimize the virtual slaps except when required, but you’re so disingenuous with virtually every post, you’re nauseating.

    Of course you meant to offend. That’s your entire M.O. in debating. It’s the only thing you do well. Why don’ t you knock off the mealy-mouthed baloney and act like a man when you’re clearly you’re attempting to be offensive? When you come off trying to be civil after your barbs, it’s retching.

    ** VOMIT **

  39. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “But who orchestrates the outrage?”

    Is the left’s outrage orchestrated?

    Again, Graychin, why can’t the minorities in that town organize and win some seats the traditional way? Do you have an answer to that question?

  40. graychin says:

    Huck – maybe it’s the same reason liberals can’t win anything in Oklahoma – we’re outnumbered!

    Would the fact that a minority is in the minority explain anything?

  41. graychin says:

    Tex, sometimes I mean to insult people. And sometimes I don’t. I didn’t mean to insult Alfie. If you don’t believe me…. you know what you can do.

    Another post from you dedicated to… little old me? How flattering! Did you notice that I have picked up another fanboy – “dick,” over at BIC’s blog. It’s a little flattering, but also very weird, to have two such dedicated fanboys as you and “dick.”

    And Elrick! 😀

  42. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “Would the fact that a minority is in the minority explain anything?”

    Only if you can prove that every eligible voter is voting. Can you prove that? Because if you can’t, we can assume, based on the traditionally appauling figures of eligible voters who participate, that not every eligible voter is actually voting.

    And as I pointed out before, that the town has a 51% white majority is not a correllation to most of its voters being white.

    If the minorities orgainized and got every eligible voter to the polls, do you believe that whites would continue to be the voting majority in that town?

  43. graychin says:

    Huck – no, I don’t think that the Left’s outrage is manufactured out of thin air to the extent that the Right’s is. We don’t often dredge up something that’s been going on for 45 years to be outraged about.

    Here is the Left’s outrage du jour :

    “I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday,” said Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.) during a hearing on Thursday morning with BP’s CEO Tony Hayward.” I think it is a tragedy in the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown — in this case a $20 billion shakedown — with the attorney general of the United States, who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the American people, participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that’s unprecedented in our nation’s history, which has no legal standing, which I think sets a terrible precedent for our nation’s future.”

    Nobody needed to dig that up, Huck. It was right there out in the open, broadcast live.

    By the way – who DID orchestrate the recent outrage over the Voting Rights Act and Port Chester, NY?

  44. graychin says:

    Huck, I’m sure you are right, and that the lack of representation of minorities on the council is their own damn fault. Getting people to vote can be very difficult, and if Hans Von Spaskovsky has his way it would be even more difficult than it is already.

    In the absence of cumulative voting, I think that the most efficient way for the minorities of Port Chester to get some seats on the council would be to recruit lots more minorities to move to Port Chester and register them to vote. Problem solved! Minorities might even get all six seats in a straight, non-cumulative election. That’s democracy in action!

  45. Elric66 says:

    “We don’t often dredge up something that’s been going on for 45 years to be outraged about.”

    Like “racism” moron?

  46. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    In all fairness, Elric, racism, regardless of how explioted it is by the left, still exists and is worthy of one’s outrage.

  47. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    Graychin, I would think it would be easier to organize current residents rather than recruiting new ones. I am curious why you appear to disagree with that.

  48. graychin says:

    Huck, what I disagree about is blaming a minority for its minority status.

    In the particular case of Port Chester, we are told that minorities are “nearly half” of the population. Your suggestion might actually work in Port Chester. But it would be totally unrealistic to make the same suggestion in a case where the minority was one-third of the population.

    A one-third segment of the population with no representation on a six-member body smells fishy. That isn’t the meaning of “majority rule.”

  49. Elric66 says:

    “In all fairness, Elric, racism, regardless of how explioted it is by the left, still exists and is worthy of one’s outrage.”

    Never said it wasnt or didnt exists. It just mostly resides with the left who use it as a tool to smear and intimidate.

  50. Elric66 says:

    “A one-third segment of the population with no representation on a six-member body smells fishy. That isn’t the meaning of “majority rule.”

    You need someone of the same race to “represent” you jerkoff?

  51. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “But it would be totally unrealistic to make the same suggestion in a case where the minority was one-third of the population. ”

    But that is not the case in the case study of Port Chester, so it really has no place in this debate.

    If you’d like to find an example of such a demographic distribution that has taken part in this voting practice, then let’s have it and we can discuss that case seperately.

    But right now we are debating the merits of this practice and how it applies to Port Chester. And it seems that even you agree that it really has none if the minorities simply organized.

  52. Tex Taylor says:

    Yeah Graychin, I saw you picked up another “fan” that wished you would step into heavy traffic. You seem to have that effect on so many. Like the clown at the dunk tank, only we get to do this without paying.

    But if Dick knew of your whereabouts like I know of your whereabouts, he would quickly recognize even while possibly being a big fish in the little pond, you and your toady friend Dawg are the dregs of the earth and completely insignificant.

    P.S. – Did you ever get your blog to suddenly and predictably quit “losing” Conservative commentary? 😆 That was an absolutely amazing coincidence Einstein.

  53. graychin says:

    But that is not the case in the case study of Port Chester, so it really has no place in this debate.

    Huck, actually it does. I thought that the debate was about the sudden appearance on the scene of this horribly un-democratic thing called “cumulative voting.”

    If one-third of the population has no representation, and THAT smells bad, how much worse is it when one-half of the population has none? Saying that the minority should just work harder is BS that ignores the underlying problem – a system that, whether intentional or not, makes it necessary for minorities to work twice as hard to get a fair result.

  54. graychin says:

    Tex – another post that’s all about me?

    I’m honored! 😀

  55. graychin says:

    You need someone of the same race to “represent” you jerkoff?

    Certainly not! I have Barack Obama! 😀

  56. Elric66 says:

    “Certainly not! I have Barack Obama!”

    Well he does advocate ripping this nation apart so yes he does represent your views. And I am glad you admitted someone doesnt need to be of your race to represent your views so you can stop with the race baiting asshole.

  57. Elric66 says:

    “If one-third of the population has no representation.”

    Again with the race baiting. Why does it have to be about race? Do you do that so you pit Americans against Americans? You get off on that? I dont hear you advocating deep blue states to have conservatives represented. Why not dirtbag?

  58. Tex Taylor says:

    Tex – another post that’s all about me? I’m honored!

    You have to be the most insecure worm I’ve read. You evaded my question there blog monitor. Did you ever catch “that magic censor” on your feckless blog worm?

  59. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “I thought that the debate was about the sudden appearance on the scene of this horribly un-democratic thing called “cumulative voting.””

    Then perhaps you need to go back up and read it again.

    Port Chester NY,the DoJ,and assorted other entities that support cumulative voting and the trampling of majority rights should be remembered forever as the harbingers of Americas final decline.”

    “If one-third of the population has no representation, and THAT smells bad, how much worse is it when one-half of the population has none?”

    As I said, when you provide of an example of such, then I will address it. I might even agree with you. But I need to see the details.

  60. graychin says:

    Huck, I’m not going to look into all 50 or so cases of cumulative voting in US municipalities for you.

    Do I understand that you MIGHT approve of cumulative voting IF I find just the right set of facts for you? Alfie and BIC seem to object to CV just on general principles – it’s “undemocratic” or some such nonsense.

  61. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “Huck, I’m not going to look into all 50 or so cases of cumulative voting in US municipalities for you.”

    That’s fine. But it wouldn’t have been for me. It would have been for you. You are the one attempting to make a point, not me. I’ve made mine.

    “Do I understand that you MIGHT approve of cumulative voting IF I find just the right set of facts for you?”

    I don’t know that I would approve, but I might be more apt to see the point as at least partially valid if I could see a real world example that allows me to absorb the facts and form an opinion.

  62. Alfie says:

    Well I like the idea that they elected all six in this at large election. I confess I thought they always had,apparently they use to do it 2 at a time.
    Anyway this is the official unofficial picture of democracy in the village
    http://www.portchesterny.com/Pages/PortChesterNY_EmerNews/015984BB-000F8513

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