The Memorial Day Weekend Round Up Mount Up…

The Steak

The steak was grilled to perfection and a homemade strawberry shortcake dessert helped to round out the weekend quite well.

Baracks Team?

I don’t know if I have something in common with the POTUS or not. I do know I am rooting for the Chicago Blackhawks as they pursue Lord Stanley’s Cup. I know a lot of people don’t “get” hockey but is far and away one of the greatest sports going in the North American market.

Hippies?!?!

I saw a post at a blog and it really just blew me away. I think you can boil the whole down to the close:

Bubba’s “private” business relies a lot on public infrastructure – infrastructure created with tax dollars.  Bubba’s business couldn’t exist without that infrastructure.

Reggie the successful black businessman pays his taxes and thus contributes to the infrastructure.

So, does Bubba’s “private” business have a right to exclude Reggie?  I think not.  I think not.

Next week I have a sales meeting out in Tempe AZ.  Now that should be interesting.

I don’t like to get into the whole web flame thing but this post just screamed to me. It screamed “How can otherwise smart people be so wrong and dishonest? Sorry HP but I just can’t help but to say you are wrong and misguided.That post was a big league turn off for me from a blog that although I rarely agreed could always at least respect to a degree.

One God?

In the Abrahamic faiths there is only one God,the kicker is that none of the trio believes the others got it right. Because of this we will always be at odds secure in each of our own faiths that we have it right.

From Graychin

Alfie, I would be interested in some information that puts our involvement in the “splendid little” Spanish-American War in a light that characterizes it differently than entered into “lightly, casually, and without grave cause.”

Sure….

Although I am not a proponent of good war vs bad war I do think the criticisms of the Spanish American War are too often leveled in a manner that is out of context.Historical events too often get revised and reviewed by people that have an agenda or refuse to accept the reasoning of a time past secondary to their present day beliefs.

The Monroe Doctrine was a reality. The sentiment of the Roosevelt Corallary was brewing before Mr. Big Stick came to town too. People can pooh pooh this as simply being American imperialism. I don’t buy that. Ergo the precedence of US policy allows for the Spanish American War.

It is an undeniable truth that the Spaniards were repressing people. I find it kind of bizarre that there are folks that are cool with modern day “humanitarian” efforts in places like Kosovo,Haiti and Somalia but somehow insist that the Span-Am was 100% imperialistic nation building. I dare say the progressive darling W. Wilson offers an example of the same principles that McKinley is crucified for in his actions leading up to WWI. Unacceptable!

There was much lead up to the Spanish American War and it was indeed fueled by Yellow Journalism and corporatism. Again on the full spectrum  of US history in the 20th century I can’t help but notice similar transgressions that somehow get tallied up differently. Corporatism isn’t necessarily something worth dying for I’ll give you that;however,it is undeniable that it is intertwined with overall US interests. No matter how unpalatable that may be,there are fruits of war. What one does with those fruit is a key to how one criticizes the wars that bear them. In the case of the Span-Am we enjoyed a short period of being liberators. We then became occupiers. (Iraq?)These points are fact. The counter points are equally true though.Oversea bases,fueling points and earning a notch on the world stage were of the utmost importance in setting the stage we played on for the next 30 years.It is in this area though that McKinley was in turmoil though so I cannot buy the thought he entered the conflict lightly.Minor casualty rates and gains as listed I don’t see the grave part.

Spain declared war first. I don’t want to get all playground on it but it is a surprising truth. Spain made the first declaration and the USA then made a retroactive declaration.Perhaps casual applies. Cavalier is perhaps better? The reality is though until pre WWII and definitely the Cold War the USA never really maintained a standing military that matched its politics. This is why previous enforcement of the Monroe Doctrine was nil essentially. We also had everything we really needed at home. The eagle was always bound to leave the nest eventually though. The Span Am was just the prescribed nudge.

So there it is. Perhaps not an answer in the eyes of some and disjointed but I’m in a rush. I confess a bias, but I truly believe the Spanish American War is too often viewed incorrectly or at least incompletely.

Some Memorial Day WPBA posts I liked…

Stark Reminder

Honoring the Honored dead…

Moment of silence…

Is this a little racist?

The following image is one I’ve had on my desktop for a bit. As a rule I don’t like the cartoonist,Oliphant, but it definitely got me thinking so I guess he did his job.

The dishonesty of the image is in line with the talking points of the Left.This is sad in it’s own right but I got caught up more in the imagery. Rand Paul a little weak white boy? The unmistakable big black man striking fear in whitey. Now I don’t imagine Oliphant wanted to illicit those thoughts in a million years. I bring it up since one obviously cannot draw certain cartoons….I’m wondering where’s the line? Anyway, I’m sure I’m the racist now. That too is sad since I am actually one of the folks willing to have the needed and honest discussion on race.Unlike NPR/WGBH FM 89.7 hump Kelly Bates….

I don’t have a link to the audio since I was suffering through it live. This douchebag wants to use the public airwaves to beat the Arizona is racist drum. She has a natural tan per her commentary so she feels the need to get her US Passport. I kid you not she actually puts that out on the air. Her whole commentary was a fucking joke and a disgrace. All lies ,all the time but its ok if you’re lying for the Left I guess.

Speaking of Arizona

So the feds are going after a law Janet Naps signed back in her governor days. This is to set up the challenge against Arizona’s new anti illegal alien law. I was especially pissed off reading about that story going into Memorial Day. What a bunch of sneaky,nasty turds we have masquerading as public servants. AAAAHhhhhhhh

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160 Comments

  1. Tex Taylor says:

    About that HP post, status quo social behavior scientist. A brother to Ward Churchill I’ve decided. I’ve come to expect that from stupid people believing the PHD behind their name indicates some superior form of intellect. 🙄

    There isn’t a group in America more sanctimonious or intellectually dishonest than the Liberal Arts professors on most college campuses. And that is who we are paying to “indoctrinate” our kids with teaching of a million Mogadishus and Little Eichmanns.

    So maybe it is us that is stupid for paying for their services.

    I predict a huge backlash against higher education in the foreseeable future. Already happening with the public schools, who in the last few months these “better angels” have shown their asses and proven themselves liars about “it’s fer the children.”

    Way overdue…

  2. graychin says:

    Alfie – interesting post! Lots to talk about.

    I don’t find the cartoon to be “racist,” and I don’t think Rand Paul is a racist. Like I said somewhere before, I just think that he is first and foremost an ideologue -and simply indifferent to the real-world consequences of his ideology. Whether he is right or wrong probably doesn’t matter at this point. Non-discrimination in public accommodations is the law, and the chances of it changing are zero after 45 years of public consensus that racial discrimination is a worse evil than the “rights” supposedly being taken away from lunch counter proprietors like Lester Maddox.

  3. graychin says:

    In the Abrahamic faiths there is only one God,the kicker is that none of the trio believes the others got it right. Because of this we will always be at odds secure in each of our own faiths that we have it right.

    Oops – another heretic has been outed? Right, Elric?

    Elric said: Did you know muslims believe Jesus will come back, break the cross and lead the muslims in a war against all non muslims til only muslims remain? Sound like the Christian God to you?

    No, Elric, I didn’t know that. Like I said, I dont’ know much about Islam. Can you provide some authority for that statement? Not that I doubt your knowledge, but…

    Actually, that DOES sound eerily like the Christian God. Ever read the Book of Revelation?

  4. hippieprof says:

    Alfie said: “How can otherwise smart people be so wrong and dishonest?

    So Alfie – I will admit that I can sometimes be wrong. Dishonest? No – really never.

    Disagreeing is fine – but I would be interested in why you disagree. My basic point is that “private” businesses rely on public infrastructure – stuff that is paid for by all citizens. Hence, if a “private” business wants to use that infrastructure it cannot discriminate against those who paid for it.

    What is dishonest and wrong about that?

    By the way – I said discriminate. You have every right to kick people out of your business for cause – if they came in and acted badly, throw em’ out permanently. You just can’t discriminate (which is to kick someone out without cause) on the basis of race, sorry.

    — hp

  5. Elric66 says:

    Woudl it matter? You will just spin it or make excuses for islam anyway.

  6. graychin says:

    Alfie – concerning the Spanish American War:

    It is true that Spain declared war first. It is also true that Spain declared war in response to a Congressional resolution demanding that Spain withdraw from Cuba, and authorizing the president to use all necessary military force to achieve Cuban independence. We might have responded similarly if Spain had told America to get out of Hawaii.

    We wanted to “liberate” Cuba for the sake of the “repressed people” there? That’s bunk. It was all about empire and profit. Cuban independence only led to a series of corrupt dictators manipulated by American organized crime, capped off by the Castro regime. Was that some of the “fruits of war”? I would say it was.

    The sinking of the Maine was that war’s “Gulf of Tonkin” incident – and just as phony.

    This discussion started when I said that “war is not a decision to be taken lightly, casually, and without grave cause.” Obviously there was no “grave threat” to the United States in the Spanish American war. If you think that the desired “fruits of war” in pursuit of corporate interests constitute “grave cause” for war, then we’re not going to be able to agree.

    But it was a “splendid little war,” wasn’t it?

    It makes me sad to think that even one of those brave men (and women) buried at Arlington might have died for empire, corporate profits, and other yummy “fruits of war.”

  7. graychin says:

    Hippie Prof – I hadn’t gotten to that part of Alfie’s post yet, but now I don’t have to.

    Well said!

    Airlines are privately owned, but of course they use public infrastructure. Alfie, should airlines have the right to ban blacks from their planes? How about just making them ride in the back? Just curious about what you think.

  8. Non-discrimination in public accommodations is the law, and the chances of it changing are zero after 45 years of public consensus that racial discrimination is a worse evil than the “rights” supposedly being taken away from lunch counter proprietors like Lester Maddox.

    Wow, Greychin. By that logic, Plessy v. Fergusson never should have been overturned. After all, “separate but equal” was the law…for decades…with public consensus.

    I don’t feel like flogging a dead horse here, but I don’t see a change in the law coming any time soon, just as I see no public consensus against the segregation that has been occurring for sometime now, with black proms, homecomings, legislative caucuses, bar associations and the like. And while the whole “it isn’t racist when we do it meme” seems to have been accepted, if the logic that supports most civil rights legislation, judicial, and legitimate is correct, the “self”-segregation that occurs today is no more correct than the external segregation of yesterday. However, as long as some minorities have something to gain from the myth of a “compelling interest in [government-mandated] diversity”, there will always be “a long way to go”.

  9. Tex Taylor says:

    Graychin,

    Would you like a source, albeit one of those “evil” religious sources, so that you can wise up about the derivation of the word Allah not only not being synonymous with God, but an affront to God?

    Airlines are privately owned, but of course they use public infrastructure. Alfie, should airlines have the right to ban blacks from their planes? How about just making them ride in the back? Just curious about what you think.

    🙄 What an intellectually dishonest question. If I own a private jet that I use to fly myself and my business associates, should I be forced by government to fly an undetermined number of minorities each time I take off?

    P.S. – that “public infrastructure” receives a fee for every take and off and landing. That is no shared expense that you like to make it out to be.

  10. graychin says:

    Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent of all “unnatural” bird deaths in the United States each year.

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/wind-turbine-kill-birds.htm

    But if you want to REALLY damage the bird population, wipe out their habitat! 😦

  11. The sinking of the Maine was that war’s “Gulf of Tonkin” incident – and just as phony.

    Really? Then what made it happen, Mr. Certainty? What was the cause of the sinking, and what makes one set of conclusions more accurate than the other?

  12. graychin says:

    BIC, my point was the same as yours – “I don’t see a change in the law coming any time soon.”

    Tex, your question couldn’t possibly be more stupid. No one would make you take “minority” passengers on your private jet unless you offer to give rides to the general public. Then you become a public accommodation, and then putting your racial bigotry into practice becomes illegal.

    The reason I put “minority” in quotes is that the day is coming when whites will be just another minority. You and Pat Buchanan had better get used to it.

  13. BIC, my point was the same as yours – “I don’t see a change in the law coming any time soon.”

    My point wasn’t rooted in sloppy logic.

  14. It makes me sad to think that even one of those brave men (and women) buried at Arlington might have died for empire, corporate profits, and other yummy “fruits of war.”

    And deep in the bowels of Hell, William Appleman Williams smiles.

    GC, did we have a draft at the time of the Spanish-American War, or were the soldiers volunteers?

  15. graychin says:

    Tex, I always thought that Allah was just the Arabic word for “God” – like Dieu in French. But my Arabic isn’t very good, and neither is my knowledge of Islam.

    Most of us don’t use Yahweh or El as the name of the One God any more, just “God.” So please enlighten us – why is the name “Allah” an “affront to God”?

  16. graychin says:

    GC, did we have a draft at the time of the Spanish-American War, or were the soldiers volunteers?

    I think they were all volunteers. Remember the Maine?

    But what difference does it make? Dead is dead, and dead in the chase for corporate profits is nothing but sad.

  17. graychin says:

    Opinions differ about the causes of the sinking of the Maine. Some say it ran into a mine in Spanish territory. Others say it was an explosion aboard the ship itself.

    If it hit a mine, was that an act of war on the part of the Spanish?

    You can’t have a splendid little war without a good rallying cry to recruit cannon fodder. “Remember the Maine” served admirably.

  18. But what difference does it make? Dead is dead, and dead in the chase for corporate profits is nothing but sad.

    The difference is that while you are entitled to your opinion on the “tragedy” of their deaths, they took up their service willingly, and your hand-wringing sanctimony about their decisions and sacrifice is something they didn’t seek and weren’t likely to want. 19th Century attitudes were different from mid-20th century hippie-influenced responsibility shirking, and sense of entitlement.

  19. Elric66 says:

    “:So please enlighten us – why is the name “Allah” an “affront to God”?

    Because its not the same entity.

  20. Tex Taylor says:

    Tex, your question couldn’t possibly be more stupid. No one would make you take “minority” passengers on your private jet unless you offer to give rides to the general public. Then you become a public accommodation, and then putting your racial bigotry into practice becomes illegal.

    I’m just following your lead about biblical questioning – stupid being the key word.

    So I can’t pick and choose who I want to give rides to? Say, I want to give ride to my neighbors and friends? Or members of my church? How many minorities should I include if I do that?

    And yet, that is what both you and Hippie have demanded that me friend do with his rental house. He can’t discriminate, even if it means him taking the risk of loss, lowering the value of his private property. You’re right – the question is stupid and was intended to show how stupid and inconsistent is your reasoning and the Fair Housing Act under the guise of Civil rights.

    P.S. – calling a runway a “public infrastructure” is like calling a turnpike a “public infrastructure.” Financing for runways unless military is financed through landing fees paid by the airlines, passenger facility charges (a fee paid on each ticket purchased), bonds issued and federal grants. No general tax dollars are typical used. Wise up tax man.

  21. Elric66 says:

    “the kicker is that none of the trio believes the others got it right”

    The kicker is one the trio will execute you if you leave. Hows that for a kicker?

  22. Tex Taylor says:

    Allah was a pagan god (one of 360 for each day) long before Mohammad his the scene. That would be like one saying Baal and Elohim are synonymous – which for you is a good possibility.

    Clueless…

    I think I’ll hold my water on this one to smack you around at a later date when you make other utterly stupid statements concerning faiths.

  23. Elric66 says:

    I guess it wouldnt matter to Greychin. He didnt answer if it would matter if I sourced it.

  24. Opinions differ about the causes of the sinking of the Maine. Some say it ran into a mine in Spanish territory. Others say it was an explosion aboard the ship itself.

    Well, if “some” say it ran into a mine, then “some” are tragically stupid in their condemnation of a casius belli. The Maine was at anchor when it exploded in the harbor at Havana. However, naval ordinance at the time included mines that would be attached to the hulls of enemy shipping.

    If it hit a mine, was that an act of war on the part of the Spanish?

    You mean if the explosion was deliberate, would we not be entitled to assume it was the act of a colonial power that resented our presence in their territory? Given the information available at the time, the conclusion was not unreasonable. However, the reason for my question, which you did not answer, is your assertion that it was “phony”. What was “phony” about it, Mr. Certainty?

  25. Tex Taylor says:

    I am utterly amazed that we are to almost lunch and the jihadi sympathizers from the Left like Graychin haven’t mentioned The Israeli stoppage of the Turkish flotilla.

  26. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Go on twitter. The leftist drones are in lock step in hating Israel for protecting themselves.

  27. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Did Dodger put up a piece in defending the USS Jihad?

  28. Tex Taylor says:

    Elric, it’s a matter of time before you read it here. The demagogues have to gauge the political winds, and Keith Olbermann and Racial Madcow haven’t been on yet. There’s still the talking points to review 😉

    Nope, Rutherford has not been himself lately. I don’t know where he’s been as a matter of fact. He was sick, so I’m hoping he’s okay.

  29. Tex Taylor says:

    The reason I put “minority” in quotes is that the day is coming when whites will be just another minority. You and Pat Buchanan had better get used to it.

    Strange accusation from a man that lives in his small little world made up almost exclusively of whites. How long can you keep yourself separated Gray from the “minority”? Is this another one of those famous reality bites where I am suppose to rise above and “do as Graychin Pragmatist says, and not as he does?” Kind of like your one true friend the Yellow Belly Poodle up in whitey B-ville?

    If people only knew the all-white, completely segregated location that Graychin has chosen for home, they would be laughing at his continual insincerity like I do.

  30. graychin says:

    Where is the accusation?

  31. graychin says:

    Allah was a pagan god (one of 360 for each day)

    Who were the other 359? Weren’t they all “gods”, i.e. “lahs”?

    Although there is a strong strain of “our God is mightier than your god” in the OT, that doesn’t make Baal the equal of Yahweh. Baal wasn’t real. That’s the whole point of monotheism.

    (Don’t get all pissy with me as usual – I never heard before that Allah was distinct from the One God of the Hebrews and Christians.)

  32. Alfie says:

    gray the cartoon is offered in humor and I titled it “not gods”. I simply think we should realize that nothing we do is without issues. Also on a side note I’ve heard bats get whacked more than birds.

  33. graychin says:

    BIC – Agreed, it is difficult to “run into” a mine while at anchor. But since torpedoes didn’t yet exist, I guess we just have to come to the best conclusion we can.

    …the act of a colonial power that resented our presence in their territory?

    Maybe the Spanish did resent our presence there, since the Maine was a warship anchored in Havana Harbor. I assume we would be sort of pissed if Iran anchored a warship in the harbor at Puerto Rico after promising to “liberate” Puerto Rico from our oppression.

    After all, we took Puerto Rico fair and square. It was one of the “fruits” of the Spanish American War. 😀

  34. Alfie says:

    Spanish American War probably saw enlistment spikes. Also the Rough Riders were private army . Conscription was on the books but the USA primarily activated its military from state NG units. The Maine and the mine has been researched again and again. There seems to be two credible camps.1.External mine. 2.Coal/ammo compartment breech.

  35. graychin says:

    No offense taken, Alfie. But I don’t see the “not gods” title, and don’t know what it means in any case.

    The “bird genocide” argument is usually a talking point that pro-fossil-fuel types bring up as a straw-man argument against environmentalists. The message in the cartoon seems to me to be: “See – the oil spill isn’t any worse than the shredded birds caused by enviro-weenies and their stupid wind farms.” Comparing birds killed by windmills to the disaster in the Gulf is a false comparison if there ever was one.

    Yes, windfarms kill bats too. Again, loss of habitat is a much greater problem for bats than windmills.

  36. hippieprof says:

    Tex said: <And that is who we are paying to “indoctrinate” our kids with teaching of a million Mogadishus and Little Eichmanns.

    Wow – pretty amazing. A person who openly supports discrimination on the basis of race accuses me of producing “little Eichmanns.” Sheesh.

    You apparently never figured this out, but higher education is about teaching people to THINK on their own. I really don’t give a damn in the end if a student agrees with me or not. In fact, I think I have FAILED if a student agrees with me just because I said it. If they end up agreeing with me it should be because they considered the evidence (both pro and con) and made the decision based on critical thinking.

    Critical thinking does require reconsideration of dogma – reconsideration of many things students have been told they are to believe without ever thinking about it. Sometimes critical thinking will cause them to discard old dogmatic beliefs. I realize that this threatens you – and instead of believing students are making rational decisions on their own you want to say they were indoctrination. Remember, though: sometimes they will retain those beliefs, perhaps even more strongly because they have considered the alternatives. This is in fact the OPPOSITE of indoctrination.

    Yeah Tex, I can hear you now. You are going to claim colleges do not really try to teach critical thinking. Not much I can say to that except, well, you are wrong.

    — hippieprof

  37. Alfie says:

    Hippie at a minimum I think you have a skewed view of America. We do not exist for the sake of government and government doesn’t do us any favors “creating infrastructure”. We create the infrastructure.
    Discriminating people is absolutely fine with me.I’ve been discriminated against in jobs,schools etc. On the flip side I routinely make choices as a consumer based on discrimination. Discrimination isn’t necessarily a boogeyman. Discriminating on the basis of race and race alone (as well as the other taboos) is also absolutely fine. It is in my opinion unsustainable and rightly so. You see I know that people that are worth anything see only two color sets in life. Red,White and Blue is set one. Green the other.

    As for my charge of dishonesty. I think you are in step with the groupthink of your side and your side is absolutely lying on the issue. Rand Paul hasn’t called for a repeal of the CRA.

    Funny how a right of center American is the one that stands stronger for liberty and rights .

  38. hippieprof says:

    Tex said: (start quote) And yet, that is what both you and Hippie have demanded that me friend do with his rental house. He can’t discriminate, even if it means him taking the risk of loss, lowering the value of his private property. (end quote)

    Tex, you know very well that is NOT what I said.

    What I did was to question your apparent certainty that simply knowing somebody’s race gives you enough information to predict whether they will commit a crime in the future. It simply doesn’t.

    It really does sadden me to see you make such an argument. I have generally thought more highly of you as a person.

    — hp

  39. Alfie says:

    gray and hippie. I absolutely agree that we will not tend to agree. That too is fine with me since I am better for being exposed to different views and being able to keep a grip on my own views.

  40. Alfie says:

    just to let folks know this theme HATES blockquote text. I’ve tried to edit where I can.

  41. Alfie says:

    gray what I mean goes a little like this
    windmill kills and detracts from Kennedy view (Cape Wind)
    Solar panels require toxic chemicals for their industrial construction.
    Recycling paper creates near toxic waste.
    I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to do other things,try to find solutions,but I’m not gonna whistle past the cemetery gates either.

  42. Alfie says:

    After all, we took Puerto Rico fair and square. It was one of the “fruits” of the Spanish American War. In the full context of history it has been an example of a plus and a minus that is where I was going with the fruits thing.
    On a completely partisan note it is the modern day Dems that are now trying to usurp PR democracy.

  43. hippieprof says:

    Alfie said: “As for my charge of dishonesty. I think you are in step with the groupthink of your side and your side is absolutely lying on the issue. Rand Paul hasn’t called for a repeal of the CRA. ”

    ….and I never said he had called for the repeal of the CRA. He did, however, say that he thought private businesses should be able to discriminate. I disagree.

    Again, I wish you would stop accusing me of spouting “groupthink” – I come to my own conclusions. If those conclusions happen to be similar to other folks on the left it is a matter of convergence – not a matter of following.

    If you actually knew my views on all the issues you would find that I have some decidedly right-of-center ideas.

    — hp

  44. Elric66 says:

    “I never heard before that Allah was distinct from the One God of the Hebrews and Christians.”

    Thats because you are too lazy to learn anything about islam. Makes it easier to be a multiculturalist.

  45. Elric66 says:

    Alfie,

    For example. Match.com was forced to cater to gays wanting to date. Was that it wrong for the government to force them too? I say yes. Interesting enough, they left along muslim dating services while forcing match.com whose owner is a devote Christian.

  46. Alfie says:

    hp- you are entitled to stand fast on your assertion : I come to my own conclusions. If those conclusions happen to be similar to other folks on the left it is a matter of convergence – not a matter of following.
    Tell ya what I’ll take that in2 the record,I hope you’ll apply it to the other side.

    I must say though, I think you conveniently twist words to your advantage. Your similar views come from an emotional and intellectual base. I’m not saying you lack originality or necessarily that you only wear one hat.

  47. Alfie says:

    of course it would make sense for match.com and the like to cater to anyone with $$$ providing the entities were not illegal in nature.(NAMBLA)

  48. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “I always thought that Allah was just the Arabic word for “God””

    Allah = Al (The) + Ilah (God)

    It’s the same God, folks. It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not. Muslims do. And since it is their faith, I think they would know.

    Tex, go ask your neighbor if he thinks they are the same.

  49. Alfie says:

    Huck a question…
    Do they really think they are the same though?

    Let’s break it down.
    Jews first. They believe in God. Mono. One. As for the Messiah,well he hasn’t showed. Some believe in Jesus fully others just that he came.
    Christians. Believe in seemingly the same God. Mono. Totally believe in Jesus hence Christianity.Part of this belief though mandates Christians be aware /beware of future false prophets.(Mohammed? Smith?Koresh?)
    Muslims. They have a new prophet, recognize parts of the other Abrahamics;however, they directly contradict key points of the others ie Jesus,Resurrection.

  50. hippieprof says:

    Elric said: “For example. Match.com was forced to cater to gays wanting to date. Was that it wrong for the government to force them too? I say yes. Interesting enough, they left along muslim dating services while forcing match.com whose owner is a devote Christian.”

    You know, I guess it eventually had to happen. Looks like we agree on something, Elric. I think discrimination should not be allowed in either case.

    I doubt there are too many gay Muslims willing to be so “out” as to use an Islamic dating service to find a partner, though.

    — hp

  51. Alfie says:

    On the environmental front….Has anyone else heard about the idea that a nuclear explosion may be the solution to the BP leak???

  52. Tex Taylor says:

    Huck,

    It’s the same God, folks. It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not. Muslims do. And since it is their faith, I think they would know.

    Tex, go ask your neighbor if he thinks they are the same.

    This is an easy argument for a Christian to refute. I’ll throw in for the Jews too. 😉

    I’m sure you have been taught that in the popular academic circles, and you are correct my Muslim neighbor does believe that. It’s one of his talking points about we are one and the same. To keep the peace, I simply tell him I disagree and loan him one of my tools. He is what I would call a good neighbor. We are friendly enough and I wish to keep it that way. But neither you or my neighbor are answering the question at hand. It’s not what my Muslim neighbor thinks, or what you think, but the historical record that defines what is.

    Here’s the clear historical facts:

    (1) There is absolutely no question that Allah was worshiped by the pagan Arabs as one of many polytheistic gods.
    (2) Allah was worshipped in the Kabah at Mecca before Muhammad was born. Allah was but one of 360 idols worshiped. Muhammad merely proclaimed a god the Meccans were already familiar with. The pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshiped.
    (3) Although “Allah” has become known as the proper name for the Muslim god, Allah is not a name, but a descriptor that means literally, “the god”. All pagan cultures have these generic terms that refer to their “top god” as “the god”. In comparison to the perfect monotheism of Judaism and Christianity, “Allah” was originally no more a proper name for the Muslim God, than the word Hebrew “elohim” (god) or Greek “theos” (god) are proper names of the one true God of the Bible. “Jehovah” is the only revealed proper name for the “Elohim” of the Old Testament ( Ex 3:13; 6:3) and “Jesus” is the only revealed proper name of “Theos” in the New Testament. (Acts 4:12) Islam has no proper name for their god, but merely transformed, by universal use and confusion, the generic Allah into a proper name. So although today, Muslims use “Allah” as a proper name, it was never used this way originally. Allah, therefore is equivalent to “elohim” and “ho theos” but not “Jehovah” or “Jesus”. Allah is not the name of the nameless Muslim God. However Muslims will claim that Allah is the name of God that corresponds to Jehovah. Both the Father and the Son are called “ho theos” (The God). Jesus is called “The God” many times in the New Testament: John 20:28; Heb 1:8.

    The conclusion then is that “Allah” is equivalent to “elohim” and “ho theos” does not mean they are directly corresponded. It certainly doesn’t prove Allah is the same as the God of the Old or New Testament. It does not prove that Muslim’s worship the same God as Christians. If this correspondence proved the Muslim god was the same as the Christian God, then because pagan religions also have generics that correspond to “the god” (Allah), this correspondence would also prove that Allah is the same god as the Buddhist god, for Buddhists also refer to their god as “the god”.

    Huck, to put simply:

    Unless you can convince Muslims to use the proper name Jesus as equivalent to Allah, there is no comparison, contrary to what you or my neighbor believe.

  53. Tex Taylor says:

    This is utter complete horseshit:

    Tex, you know very well that is NOT what I said.

    What I did was to question your apparent certainty that simply knowing somebody’s race gives you enough information to predict whether they will commit a crime in the future. It simply doesn’t.

    My argument was that the background check was questionable as the only sources relatives, and my neighbor said no way. Race was played against my neighbor in a threat of suit because they happened to be black. In your own sanctimonious, hypocritical way the only word that you saw was “brotha” as your type go looking to get offended so you can play piety. It’s pathetic and putrid. When my neighbor, who by the way is the only real victim here was forced to rent, he then received damages that he was not compensated. You do gooders and enforcers of politically correct group think were no where to be found, and my neighbor left holding the bag. This is typical of your type.

    To double your malicious charges, you went further to say and I quote:

    Lucky your friend didn’t have his property seized under RICO because he sounds like a negligent landlord. He should have known a crime was being committed on his property and called the cops.

    Besides – are you telling me he wasn’t insured? Sounds like he made some poor decisions along the way.

    After my friend was shit upon by your brand of fascism carried forth by your jackboots from the gubmit, then you insinuated he should have had his property seized. Stalin would be proud of your insistence.

    ** VOMIT **

  54. Alfie says:

    Tex…but isn’t it true that Muslims believe in Jesus but not that he is God,not unlike how they view Mohammed

  55. Tex Taylor says:

    Yeah Tex, I can hear you now. You are going to claim colleges do not really try to teach critical thinking. Not much I can say to that except, well, you are wrong.

    Only one problem with your statement of fact. You forget I helped hire many employees for three different corporations. And like colleges that are now having to provide remedial work for preparation for college due to pathetic K-12 teaching, employers are having to provide remedial training for college graduates due to inadequacies of higher education teaching critical thinking.

    I was continually amazed at the quality of beautifully graphically designed systems that served no purpose.

    What you all critical thinking skills in your department, I call Leftist indoctrination and rewriting of fact. But the backlash is coming, whether you recognize it or not. Like I said, long overdue as you been riding the gravy train for too long.

    There is nothing more overrated and untested than higher education.

  56. Tex Taylor says:

    Alfie,

    Tex…but isn’t it true that Muslims believe in Jesus but not that he is God,not unlike how they view Mohammed

    😆 From the Islamic Guide to Jesus (cut & paste):

    Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him). They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. The Quran confirms his virgin birth, and a chapter of the Quran is entitled ‘Maryam’ (Mary).

    One of the prophets – but not the prophet.

  57. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    And they believe Issa (Jesus) will come back to kill and oppress all non muslims till only islam is left.

  58. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “you are correct my Muslim neighbor does believe that.”

    And that is all that matters.

    Faith is a matter of perspective. As such, it doesn’t matter what the Christian perspective of the Muslim god is. Only the Muslim perspective matters in that debate. And as Tex has already confirmed, Muslims believe their god to be the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

    My point has been made, and I thank all for the conversation.

  59. You apparently never figured this out, but higher education is about teaching people to THINK on their own.

    I believe this is sometimes true when you are discussing hard sciences, although even there, some instructors cannot seem to keep themselves from politicising their instruction.

    I really don’t give a damn in the end if a student agrees with me or not. In fact, I think I have FAILED if a student agrees with me just because I said it.

    That would make you a rarity among your peers, many of whom, especially in the social sciences brook no critical inquiry that runs counter to their outlooks.

    If they end up agreeing with me it should be because they considered the evidence (both pro and con) and made the decision based on critical thinking.

    The preferred standard should be whether or not the come to the correct conclusions after weighing all the evidence (in a hard science discipline), and whether or not they can make a logical and cogent argument in favor of their conclusions for the more subjective social sciences.

    Critical thinking does require reconsideration of dogma

    Which is ok as long as it isn’t a member of the tweed and corduroy club reconsidering their own dogma.

    – reconsideration of many things students have been told they are to believe without ever thinking about it.

    Like the Theory of Evolution being presented as fact, or the idea that if something is conservative, it is somehow simplistic, backward, or rooted in oppression, or how the practice of deconstruction has actually found a meaning for humanity while rejecting everything that gave man a definition and purpose?

    Sometimes critical thinking will cause them to discard old dogmatic beliefs. I realize that this threatens you – and instead of believing students are making rational decisions on their own you want to say they were indoctrination.

    Except when these serious students are pressed for explainations of why they have embraced the trite phrases that tumble from their lips with the practiced ease of wrote memorization and the enthusiasm of a surly child sticking it to “the Man”, they cannot form a coherent thought, let alone a cogent argument.

    Remember, though: sometimes they will retain those beliefs, perhaps even more strongly because they have considered the alternatives.

    While this would be largely true for the children of the 60s, I find it interesting how these attitudes fade or turn around completely the farther many of these student get from their school daze, or the more that their closely-held “beliefs” don’t survive repeated muggings by reality.

    The idea of teaching critical thinking in colleges and universities is about as real as the idea that calling something “secular” is the opposite of calling something “religious”…a convenient fiction, but nothing more.

  60. Elric66 says:

    muslims also believe their pedophile “prophet” is the perfect man

  61. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    One last point.

    These words are in the Koran. They are pretty straight forward, in my opinion.

    029.046
    “And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit. ”

    I am done, and thanks again to all for the discussion.

  62. Tex Taylor says:

    “you are correct my Muslim neighbor does believe that.” And that is all that matters.

    Faith is a matter of perspective. As such, it doesn’t matter what the Christian perspective of the Muslim god is. Only the Muslim perspective matters in that debate. And as Tex has already confirmed, Muslims believe their god to be the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

    My point has been made, and I thank all for the conversation.

    And I would agree with your entire assessment except….this statement can not be true: Muslims believe their god to be the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

    By definition, both religions can’t be right because they hold two diametrically opposed views – each with an absolute statement of fact.

    As it was yesterday, it is today: “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Allah is God, follow him.”

    Just don’t straddle the fence. 😉

  63. graychin says:

    Let’s define some terms.

    There is nothing wrong with “discrimination.” We all discriminate every day. We discriminate in favor of the better qualified job applicant and the would-be renter with the better credit history.

    Discrimination ON THE BASIS OF RACE is ignorant bigotry. And it’s illegal. That’s the law. Sorry if that diminishes your “freedom.”

    (No – actually I’m not. :D)

  64. graychin says:

    I see that Tex is still in the pulpit. 😀

  65. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    If some here want to take a pedophile by his word, they can knock themselves out. Just because the savage said its so doesnt make it so and if the pedophile’s followers believe it, so what? Their cult is at war with me so screw them.

  66. Elric66 says:

    So is the Black Caucus discrimatory based on race?

  67. Alfie says:

    I stand by what I said especially:
    Discriminating on the basis of race and race alone (as well as the other taboos) is also absolutely fine. It is in my opinion unsustainable and rightly so.

    Discrimination ON THE BASIS OF RACE is ignorant bigotry. And it’s illegal. That’s the law. Sorry if that diminishes your “freedom.”
    I’m curious if those so entrenched in that view (sorry G if I am over assuming) wonder if such laws actually do more harm than good.

  68. Discrimination ON THE BASIS OF RACE is ignorant bigotry. And it’s illegal. That’s the law. Sorry if that diminishes your “freedom.”

    Unless black people do it…at proms, homecomings, student associations, fraternities, and professional associations.

    Then it is perfectly acceptable.

  69. Alfie says:

    So is the Black Caucus discrimatory based on race?
    or the HBCU’s for that matter. Of course I don’t know if we are allowed to ask that. Me personally I think the HBCU should be allowed especially since they seem to get results. the Black Caucus is a contradiction to the concept of democracy we are supposed to follow.

  70. BIC – Agreed, it is difficult to “run into” a mine while at anchor. But since torpedoes didn’t yet exist, I guess we just have to come to the best conclusion we can.

    You know, something was bugging me about this, and I wasn’t quite sure what it was until I did some reading.

    The American Civil War also saw the successful use of mines. The first ship sunk by a mine was the USS Cairo in 1862 in the Yazoo River. Rear Admiral David Farragut’s famous statement, “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!” refers to a minefield laid at Mobile, Alabama.

    In the 19th century, mines were called torpedoes, a name probably conferred by Dennis Fletcher after the torpedo fish, which gives powerful electric shocks. A spar torpedo was a mine attached to a long pole and detonated when the ship carrying it rammed another one. The H. L. Hunley used one to sink the USS Housatonic on February 17, 1864. A Harvey Torpedo was a type of floating mine towed alongside a ship, and was briefly in service in the Royal Navy in the 1870s. Other “torpedoes” attached to ships or propelled themselves. One such weapon, called the Whitehead torpedo after its inventor, caused the word “torpedo” to be used for self-propelled underwater missiles rather than static devices.

    But there were no torpedos at that time.

    I guess Professor Certainty is 0 fo 2.

  71. hippieprof says:

    BiW said: “Unless black people do it…at proms, homecomings, student associations, fraternities, and professional associations. Then it is perfectly acceptable.”

    I don’t particularly like that these exist – though I do recognize that they occur as a reaction against past (and in some cases present) discrimination. That is a LOT different from Jim Crow discrimination – which some people seem to thik of as the good old days….

    On our campus, most “discriminatory” social organizations include people who don’t meet the criteria but are interested in promoting diversity. I suspect it is similar on many campuses.

    — hp

  72. Tex Taylor says:

    Yes Graychin,

    When the word Muslim and Christian are used, I remain in my pulpit. You on the hand, never move from the bonds of eternal flame. You’re just not quite there yet – but the wailing and gnashing of teeth gets a little closer each day. 😉

    I’m just wondering since the perpetrators of the meth lab which destroyed my neighbor’s happened to be black, and being that my neighbor was forced to rent his home under threat of suit under the Fair Housing Act because the potential renters happened to be black, and being that “African-Americans” then cause thousands of dollars of damage to my white neighbor’s rental home, are they excused “African-Americans” because they were black and my neighbor is white Graychin Marx and Hippie Stalin?

    Because that is exactly what transpired. But I guess because my neighbor is white, therefore it’s his fault as Hippie previously attested for being a poor landlord under the RICO Act, and some previous sins of days gone bye, even when the other adjoining neighbors had no idea of the meth lab either, its okay according to Obama, Graychin and Hippie.

    And you wonder why rationale disdain you folks? 🙄

  73. graychin says:

    The Black Caucus and black student associations don’t seem to me to be racially discriminatory because I haven’t heard of them turning away white applicants. For example, the NAACP has members of all races. It’s for the ADVANCEMENT of colored people. So it is with the Black Caucus. If Barney Frank wanted to join, I think he would be welcome.

    To me, it’s all about freedom of association. Would a black have been welcome to join the White Citizens Council or the KKK? Probably not. We already know that he isn’t welcome on Tex’s private jet.

  74. though I do recognize that they occur as a reaction against past (and in some cases present) discrimination.

    I see. So the address past discrimination be being racially discriminatory by their very nature? Very logical.

    As for present discrimination (other than their own, of course, because while you don’t like them, you’re obviously willing to tolerate them) what present discrimination could you be talking about?

    I’ll go first.

    The year is 1991. The place is the Flint, Michigan campus of the University of Michigan, a fine institution that will long bear the stain of the falacy-as-policy of “a compelling interest in diversity” as poorly articulated and even more poorly justified in the Grutter v. Bollinger law school admissions case.

    The second floor of the University Center building (UCEN) is the hub of campus activity, with pool tables, game machines, varied seating areas, televisions and music listening areas that are used by students of all colors.

    At mid-year, the administration yields to black students’ requests for a “cultural lounge”, where they can have information and educational materials specific to their “culture”, so that the student body can come to learn about and participate in their rich cultural heritage.

    Except that it didn’t work that way.

    In practice, students who were not black were made to feel as welcome as a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest, and a place that once encouraged an atmosphere of diversity and vibrant sharing of viewpoints and cultures became a monochrome zone, where discrimination was king.

    Now it is your turn. Discrimination in present day justifying the discriminatory acts that you don’t like but are willing to put up with. Go.

  75. hippieprof says:

    Tex said: “I’m just wondering since the perpetrators of the meth lab which destroyed my neighbor’s happened to be black, and being that my neighbor was forced to rent his home under threat of suit under the Fair Housing Act because the potential renters happened to be black, and being that “African-Americans” then cause thousands of dollars of damage to my white neighbor’s rental home, are they excused “African-Americans” because they were black and my neighbor is white Graychin Marx and Hippie Stalin?”

    Tex – why do you keep up the SAME misrepresentation of what I said?

    What happened to your neighbor is awful. He has every right to be angry about people who run meth labs. However, meth labs are not exclusively run by black people – in fact I would guess that more meth labs are run by whites. His anger seems misplaced.

    Should he be angry about the fair housing laws? Sounds like they were misapplied here if indeed he had to rent after an unsatisfactory background check. Did he actually fight this in court? I suspect the background check issue would have held up as long as he could show he applied background checks equally to all races.

    My RICO comment was meant to be funny – sorry that you missed that.

    — hp

  76. Tex Taylor says:

    Has anyone else noticed that Graychin apparently is one of those progressives determined to write a societal narrative wherein whites are the scourge of humanity and the eternal enemies of “social justice,” the ecosystem, and civil rights?

    Except him.

    The politically correct type treating “the other” as a holy relic and deferring to them; conversely, the majority population is regarded as former functionaries of the Khmer Rouge.

    Except him.

    Reading most of Graychin’s commentary as he does his own form of “liberal preaching” about discrimination and freedoms gives me that same feeling I had when I took two bites of my cheeseburger, only to find a hair on it when I lifted the bun. 😦

  77. graychin says:

    Alfie, I don’t see how you can even imagine that anti-(racial) discrimination laws “do more harm than good.” Jim Crow and rigid segregation by law was still alive and well when I was a kid, a full century after the end of slavery. The Civil Rights laws of the 1960’s killed off Jim Crow, once and for all. And now most people, even Rand Paul, agree that racial discrimination is stupid, immoral, and wrong. That would not have happened without the law, in my opinion.

    Of course there are still some old-fashioned racial bigots out there, but they are dying off – at long last. The old “racial superiority” arguments were completely discredited long ago, but it looks like the “freedom to be a bigot” argument is still with us, loud and clear. I’m glad that Rand Paul has raised the issue so that it gets a good airing this year. The debate will help demolish that “logic” also.

  78. The Black Caucus and black student associations don’t seem to me to be racially discriminatory because I haven’t heard of them turning away white applicants. For example, the NAACP has members of all races. It’s for the ADVANCEMENT of colored people. So it is with the Black Caucus. If Barney Frank wanted to join, I think he would be welcome.

    Aahhhhemmm….

    The Congressional Black Caucus is an organization representing the black members of the United States Congress. Membership is exclusive to blacks,[1] and its chair in the 111th Congress is Representative Barbara Lee of California.[Emph. Mine]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Black_Caucus

    Oh, and that footnote…yeah, kinda goes against what you are asserting as well:

    Some of the tastier quotes:

    Cohen said he became convinced that joining the caucus would be “a social faux pas” after seeing news reports that former Rep. William Lacy Clay Sr., D-Mo., a co-founder of the caucus, had circulated a memo telling members it was “critical” that the group remain “exclusively African-American.”

    Other members, including the new chairwoman, Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, D-Mich., and Clay’s son, Rep. William Lacy Clay, D-Mo., agreed.

    Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., who is white, tried in 1975 when he was a sophomore representative and the group was only six years old.

    “Half my Democratic constituents were African American. I felt we had interests in common as far as helping people in poverty,” Stark said. “They had a vote, and I lost. They said the issue was that I was white, and they felt it was important that the group be limited to African Americans.”

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0107/2389.html

    Anything else that you would care to be wrong about today?

  79. but it looks like the “freedom to be a bigot” argument is still with us, loud and clear

    Would that apply to the members of the Congressional Black Caucus as well, or is it not racist when blacks are racist?

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0107/2389.html

  80. You might understand that better, when Alfie gets my previous comment showing how you got it wrong again, Professor Certainty, out of the spam box.

  81. Tex Taylor says:

    Graychin, I have a fair personal question for you that you should share with the board. You, the man of moral clarity and true justice.

    Being you project yourself as someone uniquely worthy of judging who is racist and who is not, a proponent of diversity and multiculturalism, why is it that you don’t live what you “preach”?

    For instance, where you live is lilly white in the reddest of red states. You’re no missionary as you retired there. There is no diversity or multi-culturalism on the lake. You might see the occasional Hispanic mowing the yards. I know, I was born right around where you live.

    It would appear to me that your main impetus for your stance is to misdirect and confuse people so as to gain an advantage in the debate and win over opinion, yet you seem to live a lie.

    Here is a word you should take to heart. My prognosis upon first glance is you suffer from this malady. “Psychological projection” – the unconscious act of denial of a person’s own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world.”

    Where am I going wrong? 🙂

  82. graychin says:

    Tex, why do you insist in making every issue about me?

    FYI, Delaware County OK is far from lily white. You should check some census data before letting your keyboard run wild, Cowboy.

    You were BORN around here? Was the predominant minority up here THAT invisible to you?

  83. Alfie, I don’t see how you can even imagine that anti-(racial) discrimination laws “do more harm than good.” Jim Crow and rigid segregation by law was still alive and well when I was a kid, a full century after the end of slavery. The Civil Rights laws of the 1960′s killed off Jim Crow, once and for all. And now most people, even Rand Paul, agree that racial discrimination is stupid, immoral, and wrong. That would not have happened without the law, in my opinion.

    Of course there are still some old-fashioned racial bigots out there, but they are dying off – at long last. The old “racial superiority” arguments were completely discredited long ago, but it looks like the “freedom to be a bigot” argument is still with us, loud and clear. I’m glad that Rand Paul has raised the issue so that it gets a good airing this year. The debate will help demolish that “logic” also.

    If I hadn’t witnessed how many times you couldn’t get your facts right in this thread, I might just say that you have mastered the art of practiced obtuseness, but I’m starting to believe that you really are not capable of understanding that however noble the goal, the end result goes against the letter of the law that provides for the freedom of association and the notions that doing as you choose with your property and not what you are told to is the very notion of private property. Believing in the supremacy of these ideas no more makes one a bigot or a racist than those of color wanting to retain the character of their cherished institutions by limiting the membership to those who look like them, to the exclusion of others who do not.

    Was the goal laudible? Absolutely.

    Do I object to the result? Only to the extent that those who were to enjoy their fruits then determined to practice racism themselves, and we have constantly been told that it is ok.

    Was there a mechanism available to make the result law without violating the right to freedom of association? Yes. It is called amendment, and that way, we have the participation of the people in the process rather than inconsitent law by unelected judicial fiat.

  84. Elric66 says:

    I see, if its a black group it would welcome anyone but if its a white group it wouldnt. You race baiters never cease to amaze me.

  85. Tex Taylor says:

    Yes, I see that my keyboard ran wild Graychin. My kin still live there so I know a little about where you love.

    Here’s the demographics of your beloved “DIVERSE” county:

    As of the census of 2000, there were 37,077 people. The racial makeup of the county was 70.22% White, 0.13% Black or African American, 22.31% Native American, 0.17% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 0.59% from other races, and 6.53% from two or more races. 1.75% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 93.8% spoke English, 3.5% Cherokee and 2.3% Spanish as their first language.

    That means in the year 2000, there were less than 50 blacks in your entire county, much less your city. I guess my eyes didn’t deceive me after all. 😆 😆 😆

    Congratulations on your diversity Mr. Pragmatist. 😆 😆 😆

    Oh, and being some of my kin are pure blood Injun, I know a little bit about the Native America status as well – everybody’s an Indian in Oklahoma. We don’t call ourselves and your lake “Land of the Redmen” or “Lake of the Cherokees” for nothing, do we sport?

    What a fucking farce, you projecting asshole. 😆

  86. Elric66 says:

    Why is the left more outraged with Israel than the North Koreans who sank a South Korean a few weeks ago? Antisemitism? You bet.

  87. Tex Taylor says:

    Hey Mr. Diversity 😆

    Here’s an Obamacare article just for you. Read it and weep shithead about your bragging of the proposed future successes of Bongocare… I’m sorry, I can’t help but laugh at what an expert you Mr. Diversity must be about “African-American” issues in your diversified world. 😛 I’m still laughing at you 30 minutes after the fact!!!! You almost could field a county basketball team!!! 😆 😆

    http://radioviceonline.com/canadas-health-care-system-going-broke/

  88. graychin says:

    …everybody’s an Indian in Oklahoma.

    Not exactly. Only 8% of Oklahomans are Indians. It’s very close to the same as the percentage blacks. Is everybody in Oklahoma black, too?

    The 2009 estimate is that 21.2% of Delaware County residents are Indians. Familiar as you are with Indians and with my part of the state, I’m a bit surprised that you forgot all about Indians when you called my county “lilly (sic) white.”

    We are 71.1% white. Oklahoma as a whole is 78.1% white. Tulsa County (your home?) is even more lily white than my county – 77.6%.

    That one was definitely a swing and a miss.

  89. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Plus the fact the majority want the abomination repealed.

  90. graychin says:

    BIC, your constitutionalist chest-thumping is just silly. Send your contribution to Rand Paul right now. He’s gonna need it.

    Was there a mechanism available to make the result law without violating the right to freedom of association? Yes. It is called amendment, and that way, we have the participation of the people in the process rather than inconsitent law by unelected judicial fiat.

    The Civil Rights Act was not the result of “unelected judicial fiat.” It was an Act passed by the elected Congress of the United States and signed by the President. You might say that Brown v. Board of Education was “unelected judicial fiat,” if you were an “impeach Earl Warren” nutjob. But all that Brown did was determine that all citizens are entitled to EQUAL protection under the law, and that Jim Crow was nothing of the kind.

    Speaking of Congress – how many of you “conservatives” out there agree with the recent groundswell of support for repeal of the 17th Amendment (direct election of US Senators)? Supposedly, going back to having state legislators chosen by state legislators would make the Senate “more democratic” and “less beholden to special interests.” 😕

  91. BIC, your constitutionalist chest-thumping is just silly.

    Too true. Why bother being irritated when the predictability that law is supposed to provide is undermined by people so determined to achieve an end result that their means of achieving it thwarts the law that is written and the justifiably relied upon assumptions that are based on it. Such a means of conduct would never be abused…unless of course it was for our own good, as deterrmined by the people doing such things.

    How’s that Bwarney Fwanks application to the Congressional Black Caucus working out for you, Professor “Open Membership”?

  92. Elric66 says:

    Amazing how Graychin dodged my comment on his continued race baiting. Come on Graychin tell us why you feel black groups can welcome others but white groups cant? You are you going to follow in Dodger’s footsteps?

  93. Tex Taylor says:

    OH Mr. Diversity, you kill me. You swaggering, old phony & fool! Fourty-eight (48) blacks in the entire county. WOOHOO! 😆 The Harlem Globetrotters come to town and you’ll be overrun!!! 😆

    And now that you mention it, we’ve got over 60,000 African-Americans in my county shithead. I’m now 125,000% more qualified to talk about “black” issues than you are, all in the name of DIVERSITY. The only Indians you’ll find on Grand Lake in your neck of the woods are working in casinos. Hopefully, they’ll buy you out and leave you stranded.

    You forget, I just left Monkey Island two years ago. I was right down the road from you and you didn’t even know it LAKE MAN! Of course, that was just a vacation home. To live there, my Gawd, what a shithole!! 😆

    Everybody’s an Indian in Oklahoma – get those cheap car tags! 😛

  94. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    My guess his “Indian Math” is that if you have any Indian blood, it makes you an Indian.

  95. Elric66 says:

    Pelosi: We need partial-birth abortions for Jesus, or something

    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/01/pelosi-we-need-partial-birth-abortions-for-jesus-or-something/

    Vile woman through and through.

  96. graychin says:

    “Feds launch criminal probe of Gulf spill.”

    Another question for “conservatives” – should the legal cap on BP’s liability for this spill still apply if it is proven that the spill was due to criminal behavior? Or should they be shielded from liability for criminal acts?

  97. Elric66 says:

    Try answering some of my answers before asking me to answer yours.

  98. Tex Taylor says:

    Elric,

    It’s worse than that. By definition, I could claim Native American and if I want to drive around with an “Ottawa car tag”, I can save $30.00. They so diluted the rolls over the years, like I said, anybody here three generations here could damn near claim to be “Native American.”

    It makes the phonies like Graychin “feel” good about our “multiculturalism.” 😆

    This sham posed as the fat man is blowhard about everything…

  99. graychin says:

    Monkey Island? Nobody owns property on Monkey Island but arrogant a**holes. That isn’t REAL Delaware County.

    You must have fit right in over there. House on the golf course?

  100. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Multiculturalism is his “religion”.

  101. Tex Taylor says:

    Monkey Island? Nobody owns property on Monkey Island but arrogant a**holes. That isn’t REAL Delaware County.

    You must have fit right in over there. House on the golf course?

    On the lake before it was even flooded. We needed your ilk to mow our lawns. 🙂

  102. Tex Taylor says:

    Obama and Holder shuffling for trumped up charges. Piss poor decisions now constitute criminal behavior?

    If that were true, every one of you assholes from the Left would be in prison. Which now that I think about it, would be a wonderful idea. Yeah, criminal behavior! That’s what it is.

    After we can file charges for Obama’s criminal negligence.

    Speaking of Desperate Mr. Diversity, I hear the Obama Cabinet has asked James Cameron to help with the Gulf Spill due to his work under water. 😆 😆 😆

    I thought I was reading something from the Onion, but they were dead serious. Who do we call out for war Afghanistan? MATT DAMON? You clowns are a joke.

  103. Another question for “conservatives” – should the legal cap on BP’s liability for this spill still apply if it is proven that the spill was due to criminal behavior? Or should they be shielded from liability for criminal acts?

    If criminal behavior is proven, then it usually vitiates concepts of immunity. Of course, given Holder’s track record on prosecuting cases that the DOJ has already won, I’d entertain arguments of selective enforcement. Either Teh Won will soon realize that Holder’s lack of cedibility makes him damaged goods and he’ll join the ever-growing pool of talent under the bus, or he will persist in making him point man, despite the fact that he is as sharp as an eraser.

  104. I thought I was reading something from the Onion, but they were dead serious. Who do we call out for war Afghanistan? MATT DAMON? You clowns are a joke.

    But Tex, he’s MATT DAMON!!! 😆

  105. hippieprof says:

    BiW asks: Now it is your turn. Discrimination in present day justifying the discriminatory acts that you don’t like but are willing to put up with. Go.

    You know I have written several article about this on my blog – you have commented on them there as a matter of fact. I won’t be a major blog whore – but here is one:

    http://hippieprofessor.com/2009/09/16/the-subtlety-of-modern-racism/

    Synopsis: Identical resumes are submitted, one with the black-sounding name “Denzel” and the other with the more generic “Dennis” – guess who gets more job callbacks? Worse yet, the people who are discriminating based on name ethnicity aren’t even aware they are doing it.

    Obviously, racial profiling done by police departments is another example.

    Does it justify reverse discrimination? Perhaps it does – when that reverse discrimination occurs as a defense.

    — hp

  106. Alfie says:

    I’d have never voted for the 17th. I see it being attached to Tea Party folks and have seen a NYT piece that was a pathetic hatchet job.
    If you really believe in the Constitution ans states rights there really should be better control over the Senate.
    As for BP. Charge them all you want and on the civil side get in line. The company will go bankrupt and I doubt the UK will accept any responsibility. Hopes ya like ya shrimp oily.

  107. Alfie says:

    Does it justify reverse discrimination? Perhaps it does – when that reverse discrimination occurs as a defense.
    And when that spirals downwards to the breeding ground of both hard and soft bigotry those with noble hearts and ultra-white neighborhoods will still sleep well at night.

  108. Alfie says:

    Tex Cameron is going to use Avatar set technology to make the Gulf look pristine again. All in all a good choice.

  109. Does it justify reverse discrimination? Perhaps it does – when that reverse discrimination occurs as a defense.

    Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit, and…oh yeah, BULLSHIT!

    If the law is to mean anything, then it has to mean equal application, without a tacit sanction of the offending behavior being practiced by the former victims.

    The very existence of black proms, and the like are an insult to those who bled and died to make it possible for the modern-day ingrates to attend the same school and all the school functions.

    Next you’ll be telling me that easier admissions standards in all of higher ed are a reasonable remedial measure.

  110. hippieprof says:

    BiW said (regarding my teaching): “That would make you a rarity among your peers, many of whom, especially in the social sciences brook no critical inquiry that runs counter to their outlooks.”

    It is amazing how many people are willing to talk about how I teach without having been in my classroom. Indeed, I don’t teach “right answers” on controversial issues. I try to gets students engaged in thinking through both sides of an issue and encourage them to come to a rational and defensible solution. Frankly, this is how most people I know teach.

    You mention the Theory of Evolution. I do indeed teach it as a theory. It is indeed a very strong theory with plenty of supporting evidence – but there are issues too. Obviously, the fossil evidence is incomplete and as an historical theory it suffers from a falsifiability problem. I even include a discussion of SOME “Intelligent Design” criticisms.

    Now – what I don’t do is allow students to use the Bible as a scientific source. This is not to demean their faith – but the bible indeed is not a scientific document. I also do not allow some obviously fallacious criticisms, such as Tex’s favorite contention that evolution defies the second law of thermodynamics.

    In the end, students write a paper in which they defend their opinion. The are graded on their ability to defend that opinion and NOT on what that opinion is.

    That is how critical thinking should be taught – and it is frankly how it *is* taught by the majority of my colleagues.

    — hp

  111. Elric66 says:

    Didnt think this would end up in a race baiting debacle.

  112. Alfie says:

    HP there is no end of examples from both sides that could be offered up. I for one watched a classmate go down in flames on a creative writing piece once. For some reason the professor insisted on social science topics. My buddy went forth with a well written piece opposing certain welfare policies. He was crucified. He was vindicated later by the dept. head.Just saying.

  113. Elric66 says:

    “For some reason the professor insisted on social science topics.”

    Gee thats a shock.

  114. It is amazing how many people are willing to talk about how I teach without having been in my classroom.

    Actually, my statement merely states that if you do what you claim, you are a rarity among your peers in Academia. One of the biggest ‘secrets’ today is the dogmatic teaching that occurs in many major universities. I can play the odds, especially when I am too familar with the finshed product that is woefully incapable of justifying their shallow beliefs. I encountered such teaching not only in undergrad and graduate studies in the midwest, but in post-graduate studies in the northwest as well.

  115. Tex Taylor says:

    I also do not allow some obviously fallacious criticisms, such as Tex’s favorite contention that evolution defies the second law of thermodynamics.

    WTF???

    What in the hell Hippie are you doing teaching anything about Evolution in social behavior or statistics? Your understanding of basic biology was like that of a Jr. High student when we debated the first time. I was asking basic questions about cell signaling and MHC and you said you’d have to get back with me. You never did. 🙄

    I guarantee your own biases leak into your teaching. There is no way you are capable of separating your biases because it is the essence of who you are. It takes no great insight to recognize a red diaper baby invested in Leftist Indoctrination. Your blog reads like KKKos – pure leftist propaganda talking points.

    You want to get your lunch eaten again in a debate about science? You gave a line of baloney about the 2nd law of thermodynamics the first time we debated and I let you off the hook. This horseshit about trying to define the universe as open or closed is disingenuous and irrelevant. It’s this simple – The second law states entropy can not be destroyed and is forever increasing period. In other words, the universe is reaching further and further states of randomness without work – and I ask you about the work which you never bothered to answer. I’m still waiting. Take a shot again.

    And since this is your “theory” which I call wild, unsupported speculation that is easily refuted and you teach as hard science, it is up to you to prove me wrong. If you want to start this debate all over again, I’ll be more than happy to blow some big holes in your stern.

    A million little universes, a million Mogadishus….

  116. Tex Taylor says:

    Hey Hippie – your students like you. I perused your results on rate my professor. 🙂

    Here’s the descriptor: easy, spacey, funny, random, plays in a rock band – most common comments (1) easy & (2) funny.

    I ask you again, what in the world would a psychology professor be doing teaching evolution? Stretching it a bit, aren’t you?

  117. Elric66 says:

    Sarah Palin Defends Israel, Rips MSM for Biased Reporting of Gaza Flotilla Assault…

    (Facebook)- The media, as usual, seems to be reporting only one side of the Israeli Flotilla incident. Don’t trust the mainstream media to give you both sides of a story fairly… you must seek out fair reporting to ensure you have all the information.

    As far too many in the media, and in various governments, rush to condemn Israel, we must put the recent events off Israel’s coast into the right perspective. This “relief” convoy was not about humanitarian aid, as the liberal mainstream media keeps reporting. The whole operation was designed to provoke Israel, not to provide supplies to Palestinians held hostage by Hamas terrorists in Gaza. Anyone who sees the video of Israeli commandos being attacked as they land on that ship knows the people aboard were vicious thugs, not “peace activists.” The media insults our intelligence with their outright mis-characterization of who these enemies are.

    Israel delivers thousands of tons of humanitarian supplies every week to Gaza. These ships could have offloaded their cargoes at a nearby Israeli port if they really wanted to help the people of Gaza. Instead, they chose to incite confrontation and violence. Israel has a right to prevent arms shipments to Gaza that will be used to target innocent Israelis, so they were legitimately checking the cargo on the flotilla.

    Turkey has chosen to condemn Israel but we should be asking some serious questions about Turkey’s role in this whole affair. Why is a fellow member of NATO sponsoring such a dangerous publicity stunt?As one expert points out: “Three ships of that six-ship pro-terror convoy flew Turkish flags and were crowded with Turkish citizens. The Ankara government – led by Islamists these days – sponsored the ‘aid’ operation in a move to position itself as the new champion of the Palestinians. And Turkish decision-makers knew Israel would have to react – and were waiting to exploit the inevitable clash. The provocation was as cynical as it was carefully orchestrated.”

    I look forward to a President Palin.

  118. Tex Taylor says:

    Ah, man the Left is exploding in oblivion. Anybody getting a hoot out of this Joe McGinness pervert that docked next to Sarah Palin’s residence there solely to harass and dig dirt? I thought he was going to cry on the Today Show because now he’s being trespassed upon. He’s resorting to calling the cops and screaming NAZI while the city attempts to run him out on a rail. Loved the part in the daily editorial about lethal protection of private property. Now that is how you talk to a pervert. 😆

    Finally the Right is not making nice anymore and its paying off in spades.

    Paraphrased from one of my favorite movies:

    The Progressives are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood. Shoot them in the belly.

  119. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    The left are like the islamists. They respect strength. Being nice just encourages them.

  120. Tex Taylor says:

    Elric, I agree – bullies don’t like to be punched back.

    And this, which you won’t here on MSNBC, I’m sure.

    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Israel_Navy_warns_flotilla_31-May-2010.htm

    Text:

    Israel Navy: “Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade. The Gaza area coastal region and Gaza harbor are closed to all maritime traffic. The Israeli government supports delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and invites you to enter the Ashdod port. Delivery of supplies in accordance with the authorities’ regulations will be through the formal land crossings and under your observation, after which you can return to your home ports on the vessels on which you have arrived.”

    Response: “Negative, negative.”

    Israel should be commended for its restraint. I would have sunk the ship after the response.

  121. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Israel promised a harsh response next time so hopefully the next one will be sunk.

    BTW What they found
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM&feature=player_embedded

  122. Tex Taylor says:

    Elric,

    I just read that the Turkish navy will be escorting the thugs this time. A high value target in the making!

    Seems like the appropriate time for statehood to me: Kurdistan. 🙂

  123. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    I was afraid this would happen. I honestly dont know what Israel will do but Turkey is pushing for war.

  124. Tex Taylor says:

    I was afraid this would happen. I honestly dont know what Israel will do but Turkey is pushing for war.

    Maybe. They are part of Gog, Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Rosh – everything is setting up from that book of “myths” that Graychin loves to mock.

    The let Turkey join the party of Islamic countries who have had their asses handed to them by Israel.

  125. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    It is all playing out, isnt it? How much longer before the anti-Christ/Mahdi makes his appearance?

  126. Tex Taylor says:

    Tex,

    It is all playing out, isnt it? How much longer before the anti-Christ/Mahdi makes his appearance?

    Can’t be too long – his Deputy Director is sitting in the White House.

  127. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    Aint that the truth. Even it blows over with Turkey, Israel will need to deal with Iran, mostly likely this Summer. Either way, they will be pushed into a war as the world vilifies them.

  128. Elric66 says:

    Check out Graychin, Dodger and Yellow Dog’s friends.

    Video: Pro-Israel Jewish HS Student Faces Down Hundreds of Leftist, Muslim “Peace” Activists Protesting Against Israel’s Flotilla Assault, Met With Chants of “Allahu Akbar”…

    “the Jews can live in a Palestinian state, there should not be an Israeli state”…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjE_7uwA0I&feature=player_embedded#!

  129. Tex Taylor says:

    Elric,

    Did I see a “Yes WE Can!” bumper sticker? 😆

    They don’t call it the “religion of pieces” for nothing. Some goon mistakenly picked up the American flag. Or did the peace lovers burn it?

    My favorite Obama speech {cough, cough}:

    I face this challenge with profound humility [puke], and knowledge of my own limitations [baloney]. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people [Oh please]… I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless [uh huh]; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal [OMG!!!]… This was the moment — this was the time — when we came together to remake this great nation…[Oh boy 😆 ]

    All Hail Caesar Obama!

  130. Elric66 says:

    All Hail Obama

    [PBUH]

  131. graychin says:

    They are part of Gog, Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Rosh – everything is setting up from that book of “myths” that Graychin loves to mock.

    It is all playing out, isnt it? How much longer before the anti-Christ/Mahdi makes his appearance?

    Can’t be too long – his Deputy Director is sitting in the White House.

    You guys are nuttier than a tree full of squirrels. At least you don’t think that Obama is THE Antichrist – just his deputy director. 😀

    If/when the fighting starts between Israel and Turkey, the international politics are going to be very interesting indeed. Turkey is a member of NATO, and all of Europe and the US are bound by treaty to consider an attack on Turkey as an attack on themselves.

    And if Turkey does have its a** handed to it by Israel, it will be not so much because of Israel’s military brilliance as because of American weaponry.

    But so what if Israel and Turkey start World War Three? It only means that Jesus is coming back sooner than we thought! Blockade those Palestinians!

    This is why religion and politics is a toxic mixture – World War Three for Jesus! 😦

  132. graychin says:

    Everyone can be bigoted. Xenophobia may even be part of the human operating system, deep in our DNA.

    You poor, persecuted Anglo white boys just can’t catch a break in 21st Century America, can you? It’s getting so a white man can’t get a fair shake anywhere. THOSE people have taken over YOUR country.

  133. Elric66 says:

    Gray,

    Hey asshole, what makes you think we are white? Because we oppose illegal immigration? Not apologizing Alfie. Im all for free speech but not going to sit by as he keeps spewing his race baiting drivel. And race baiters arent any different than racists. The drone is a pathetic asshole. Get some new talking points jerkoff.

  134. Tex Taylor says:

    Graychin, 🙄

    You’re the proverbial old man that never left momma’s basement or cut the strings. You’re getting to be as pitiful as B-ville, the Yellow Belly Poodle. No wonder you two latched on to each other.

    What in Obama’s name gives you the notion you would be qualified to race bait? You, living in a county, not city but county, that has less than 50 blacks gives you about as much credibility to accuse anyone of racism as Baghdad Bob when he talked about Baghdad being protected while American military ran across the screen behind him.

    Elric, don’t let this deluded, old fart bait you. If you knew his neck of the woods like I do, you’d recognize him as the caricature of big fish of the toothless bohunk crowd. The gang who couldn’t shoot straight.

    Here Graychin, stick in this is your repertoire of Jew hating and religious baiting (except Islam). Israel will do it without us. Frankly, they don’t really need us.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/anti_israel_sharks_sniff_weakness_n5AbqK6bk6NHcy6qEWK5jJ#ixzz0phPKSy8o

    P.S. – You’re biblical ignorance is on beautiful display again this morning. Jesus has his own timetable and I’m afraid we Christians aren’t qualified to usher in the rapture, or invoke His wrath. Wish I could. The idea of softening you up a little before the big fry does send a tingle up my leg. 🙂

  135. Elric66 says:

    Tex,

    I dont let race baiters bait me. When you challenge them on it, they have no answers. Like the challenge on what makes him think we are white? He didnt even answer my earlier question on what makes him think black groups would welcome non blacks but white groups wouldnt welcome non whites. That argument in itself is racist.

  136. Tex Taylor says:

    Elric,

    Graychin is Keith Olbermann with an Oklahoma twang.

    Graychin never has any answers. That’s not his style, nor his intent. He’s a religious provocateur and bigot, a sanctimonious bleeding heart who never lifts a finger, a Nancy Pelosi with like forked tongue. There’s nothing honest or sincere about the schmuck besides his own self interest, as he has no intentions of keeping the standards he tries to set for others. He just wants you to think he’s grounded in some sense of real humanity.

    You ought to see some of the pitiful posts he wrote to women on the T-World board. Pseudo love letters – 😆 pitiful stuff, like he’s some kind of poetic Romeo. When I baited him over here, his first post of any significance was making comment “where’s all the women?” He’s probably an old pervert.

    Picture in the theater of your mind this when you think of Graychin:

    Treat him like a dirty dog, or ignore him. But never take his false sense of piety seriously. Like Dear Leader, he’s an empty suit and complete sham.

  137. Alfie says:

    Actually no NATO nations especially the USA will be obligated to help Turkey. #1 Turkey is engaging as the aggressor. #2 Turkey screwed the USA as a whole the 4th Infantry Div. specifically on Operation Iraqi Freedom.
    As far as israel and the aid flotillas let’s all be honest. I know its a complex issue but lets take baby steps to truth.
    Egypt also enforces an embargo on Gaza.
    Hamas recently bulldozed homes in Gaza. That’s Hamas not IDF.
    Israel and I believe Egypt offered alternative routes for the aid.
    Turkey probably risks civil war over any real confrontation with Israel.

  138. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “The let Turkey join the party of Islamic countries who have had their asses handed to them by Israel.”

    That wouldn’t be a mere 6-day war. Turkey aint no Syria/Lebanon/Jordan/Egypt. They have a very modernized military, along with the knowledge and manpower to use it.

    This is not an engagement we should encourage.

  139. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “Turkey probably risks civil war over any real confrontation with Israel.”

    I find this comment interesting. Can you expand on it, Alfie?

  140. Alfie says:

    The Turkish military has a proud history of defending secularism which was the norm prior to Erdogans upsurge. I think it not crazy to ponder if the military would be eager to engage Israel or not. I think an entity that spoke out against head scarves may surprise us. As you say they are modern and well trained I think it stands to reason they could count amongst themselves those like the West has regards adding Iran War to our current mix.

  141. hippieprof says:

    Hey folks,

    My daughter is in the hospital so I am not reading and replying at the moment. I will get back to this eventually – but they probably won’t release her till morning.

    Just didn’t want you to think I was conceding….

    😉

    — hp

  142. Tex Taylor says:

    That wouldn’t be a mere 6-day war. Turkey aint no Syria/Lebanon/Jordan/Egypt. They have a very modernized military, along with the knowledge and manpower to use it.

    This is not an engagement we should encourage.

    I’ve heard this all before. If Israel shows no restraint, the results are never pretty for Islam. If I were the Turkey flotilla, I would knock the Hamas Hotel Flotilla off while they still can. If I were Israel, I’d let them through and detain the “peace activists” and welcome them to Hotel Hamas…

    Last thing they remember, they were
    Running for the shore
    Trying to find passage back
    To the place they were before
    Relax sad the Israeli Navy,
    We are programmed to receive.
    You can checkout any time you like,
    But you can never leave…
    😉

  143. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    Tex, I am not suggesting that Israel do nothing. Nor am I suggesting that Israel could not beat Turkey.

    But if you believe that Israel would take them with the ease they have taken others, I believe you are mistaken.

    What leads you to believe I am mistaken?

    “#1 Turkey is engaging as the aggressor”

    Alfie, being as the Israeli military borded a Turkish-flagged civilian ship in international waters, could it not be argued that Israel was the aggressor? (Settle down Elric. I am not saying I am making that argument.)

    I think perspective is going to play greatly in the charges of agression.

  144. Alfie says:

    HP good luck with your daughter,hope it is nothing serious.
    Huck. I don’t believe in international waters for starters. My issues aside though Gaza isn’t sovereign so perceived “attacks” to it’s shoreline are actually attacks upon Israel in a way.
    Sure I can see where perception and spin will help Turkey make a case that they are only responding to aggression but I can’t vote that way.

  145. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    I don’t think I would vote that way, either.

    But you and I don’t get any votes in NATO. 😉

  146. Alfie says:

    Well I think NATO will not go any further than they have already with the UN/EU flavored press release. Seriously NATO is a joke in my book and should be disbanded. It was an extraordinary action on their part to enter into the Afghanistan fray and I don’t see them doing it again given the EU’s on/off affair with Turkey.

  147. Tex Taylor says:

    Huck, I’m not here to argue but I have to disagree with who was the aggressor, unless you can convince me Israel has no right in the protection of her citizens and national sovereignty. Here is the transcript of the conversation that proceeded the incident immediately before the ship being boarded.

    Israel Navy: “Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade. The Gaza area coastal region and Gaza harbor are closed to all maritime traffic. The Israeli government supports delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and invites you to enter the Ashdod port. Delivery of supplies in accordance with the authorities’ regulations will be through the formal land crossings and under your observation, after which you can return to your home ports on the vessels on which you have arrived.”

    Response: “Negative, negative.”

    The video is available here: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Israel_Navy_warns_flotilla_31-May-2010.htm

    Move to the bottom of the page.

  148. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “Huck, I’m not here to argue but I have to disagree with who was the aggressor, unless you can convince me Israel has no right in the protection of her citizens and national sovereignty.”

    I cannot stress enough that I do not believe Israel was the aggressor. Frankly, I am not prepared to give an opinion on most of the issue, because I don’t feel I have enough information. All I am saying is that some could make that argument, and it could considered by some to be a strong argument based on the points I raised.

    I am more interested in why you believe Israel would walk over Turkey like they have other countries in the past. And I am not interested so that I can claim you are wrong, but so that we can discuss it.

  149. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    Alfie, I don’t think NATO will go any further, either. What I suspect is that this will be the beginning of the end of NATO.

  150. Alfie says:

    Yeah. On your other point I think Israel would be hard pressed against Turkey. The Israelis would prepare against the Turks response but then face a Hizbullah assault which then begs for either covert or even overt Iranian action and then BOOM. I think there are elements in the USA,Turkey,and Israel that have no intention of allowing the snowball to start rolling down the hill.

  151. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    “I think there are elements in the USA,Turkey,and Israel that have no intention of allowing the snowball to start rolling down the hill.”

    I prefer to think that, as well. But as a fan of history, I don’t like these kinds of powder kegs.

  152. Tex Taylor says:

    I am more interested in why you believe Israel would walk over Turkey like they have other countries in the past. And I am not interested so that I can claim you are wrong, but so that we can discuss it.

    Because I believe the battle would be fought in the proximity of Israel, and with no problem of logistics to contend, I think the Jews are better armed, better trained, more talented, more toughened, and more just.

    That’s the easy answer. 😉

  153. Elric66 says:

    White congressional candidate wants to participate in forum, but is told she can’t because she’s not black

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/02/white-congressional-candidate-wants-to-participate-in-forum-but-is-told-she-can%E2%80%99t-because-she%E2%80%99s-not-black/

    al-Thuggy’s America…Actually its Graychin’s too

  154. Elric66 says:

    Black lawmakers want to limit new ethics office

    Jun 2, 3:24 PM (ET)

    By BEN EVANS

    WASHINGTON (AP) – Stung by a series of inquiries, nearly half the members of the Congressional Black Caucus want to scale back the aggressive ethics procedures that Democrats trumpeted after gaining control of Congress.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100602/D9G3AVUO0.html

    Of couse they would, they are demomarxists after all.

  155. PanAm says:

    I appreciated the Memorial Day post(s) and photos…
    The layout is eye-catching and interesting posts continue…

  156. hippieprof says:

    I am back to blogging after the family crisis…. and there isn’t much I have to add to this thread. But – Tex asked a question I didn’t want to answer.

    He asked “Why are you teaching evolution?”

    My answer: Half of Psychology is natural science, and is virtually indistinguishable from Biology. The other half of the discipline is social science.

    My specialty – and thue the classes I teach – are in the natural science/Biology part of the discipline. You really can’t teach animal behavior without teaching about evolution.

    Also, the roots of Psychology are in Biology and Philosophy. The Origin of Species was published a mere 20 years prior to the emergence of Psychology as an independent discipline. Evolutionary theory was a critical event in that emergence.

    This is probably of interest to nobody – but for some reason I felt compelled to answer.

    — hp

  157. Hucking Fypocrites says:

    HP, I also found more than a lose connection between psychology and physical anthropology when I took both in college. Both talked about the ways humans develop.

Comments are closed.