A Hippie and a Center Right guy walk In2 a bar…

The following is a comment put forth by the hippieprofessor in a thread at RutherfordLawsons blog.

Unfortunately for me Blackiswhite Imperial Consigliere (BIC) has thoroughly addressed the comment in a manner which I pretty much second.I must however experience my own personal catharsis.

HP comment is in text my retort in italics.

1) Obama has symbolically broken the racial glass ceiling. He has empowered a huge segment of our society – a group who in fact felt that the American dream did not apply to them. He has given a sense of hope to the disenfranchised. Go ahead and scoff at this – but believe me, it is real and it is important. This is one reason I am so resentful of those who seek to take Obama down for mere political gain. You may have already seen my blog post on the topic: http://hippieprofessor.com/2010/02/10/ahhh-sarah-about-that-hopey-changey-thing/

This is absolute bullocks. No ceiling was broken by Obama either real or symbolic. A half black man won the Presidential election of the United Sates of America. I get how people may think this was some great accomplishment. All things considered it just isn’t. Some of those things require an honest analysis of recent political history and a gander at the other candidates. There was a storm brewing and Obama sailed on in.Do I doubt black pride in Brack Obama’s election? Absolutely not but I don’t think it improves their lot in life one iota.

2) He has stabilized the economy at a time when we might well have made a tailspin into a second great depression. You will scoff. Seriously – can you honestly claim that the economy would be in better shape right now without the stimulus? Had GM and Chrysler and AIG failed we would have seen a massive cascade of business failures and unemployment would be far far far higher than it is now. I have said it a billion times – in economics we don’t get a control group. Wish we did – because I know I would be right.

I for one firmly believe the economy would have survived the shocks of mega company failures.The system that created some of the problems would have been a big part of the solution.I think the reason people feel like HP on this issue is they love Keynesian econs and feelings over logic and reality.

I also don’t think one can prove the actual expenditure of money is what helped.The world leaders have all done a grand dance. The markets have all done what they were going to do anyway.

3) BTW – saving GM and Chrysler – at least for now – was a big thing. I suspect you will claim it was illegal and unconstitutional. I tend to think it wasn’t – but as you have pointed out I don’t have a law degree. Now we will actually see the Chevy Volt – and with Toyota in disarray the US may even to be able to catch up in the race for green technology. Yeah – I know – not important to you.

The root principles that lead to Toyota growing and GM and Chrysler failing have not and will not be addressed. I also wouldn’t hold my breath for the Volt. I can say with a straight face that regards the auto industry one should invest in Korean and Chinese manufacturers. The Eagle is not a phoenix preparing to fly high once more.

I will say this though I love how you like Obama for saving GM (nice package we waived for the CEO huh?!?) but seemingly disregard the no bail out hard work of that other American car company….Ford.

4) He has articulated a moderate vision of health care reform. Despite dishonest conservative commentary(fueled by a desperate insurance industry) It is far from a progressive position – a progressive position would entail single payer or at least a very robust public option. An honest politician on the right would find a lot to like in the bills now on the table – yet they seek to to score political points instead – and they disgust me. See my section on failures below for commentary on Obama’s failure to get this done.

How the fuck anyone can say Obama has articulated anything regards HCR is beyond me. It is exactly one of his biggest failures that he hasn’t done anything on it of any substance.Now as I write this Obama is due to present his HCR plan before the big summit.Now we we will have to agree to disagree that the plan at hand isn’t a bad thing. A trillion bucks we don’t have from sources we don’t need to be raping. Plans that will only increase as proved by my homestate the poster child of HCR for progressives. (MA.) The horse and pony show of the summit is nothing but political posturing. Seeing as reconciliation is still foolishly on the table any summit is bullshit. Tell ya what just reconcile the bill that most Americans DON’T want and we’ll see if the 2010 onslaught overturns it.

5) He is taking strides to end “don’t ask, don’t tell” – he should have done it earlier, and it will take too long in the end – but it is the right thing to do.

Are you serious???? He the CinC has simply asked the underlings to pursue a plan that would/could lead to its repeal. He has shown the same cowardice and timidity on this administrative act as he did in the Somali pirate episode. I’ll tell you what though. He’s shown a split personality regards Afghanistan. I don’t think that will last though.

6) He has, as promised, given a tax cut to the vast majority of working Americans. That they apparently don’t realize this is testimony to the power of the conservative press. You can be damned sure that had McCain lowered middle-class taxes to a similar degree FOX would be shouting it from the mountaintops.

This is a lie. He skipped taxes for now on a group of people. Essentially everyone “borrowed” from their own SS holdings. Awesome we all took nonexistent funds that we all will need later.No worries though seeing as SS coffers will be empty when we need it.

7) He acted boldly and decisively with the Somali pirate situation. Before you scoff, just think what you would be saying had that rescue attempt failed. Why – you would be saying the same things you say about Carter’s failure to rescue the Iran hostages (though of course that was a much bigger undertaking).

He sent law enforcement first and I know from those on the ground (on the ship) that the SEALs informed the higher ups they had a shot three times before they actually were allowed to squeeze off the rounds.I also don’t see how the rescue of one citizen is supposed to show any greatness either. The world is still plagued by the pirates and the international response tepid at best. If you want Obama to come off as great on the Somali issue let me see him actually address the Somali issue which is MUCH MUCH bigger than pirates.I simply don’t see where we have a plan.

8) He has made an unprecedented outreach to the Islamic world. No doubt you will think this was a mistake – a sign of weakness perhaps. You fail to realize how badly our image has fallen in the rest of the world after Bush. Something needs to be done about that – this is a start.

Even if he had been successful with his outreach,he wasn’t, Hillary’s latest barnstorming of the region has been beautifully and artfully spun by the Iranians to show what a punk the USA is.

Domestically the administration via Janet Naps has soured the domestic Muslim organizations with what they perceive as an arrogant and ignorant show. There was a meeting to address concerns over domestic profiling in light of the Christmas terror attempt. The DHS folks just steamrolled through the meeting and pissed of the Muslims and Sikhs.

Now I imagine one could make the case that the original man made disaster ,Naps,is at least taking terrorism seriously,but I don’t see that in your admiration of the One.

9) He made a good choice for his first Supreme Court appointment. I stand by that. I knew what “wise Latina” meant the moment I heard the phrase – and I am saddened that she had to backtrack on that and pretend it meant something other than it did. Yes – we all know what you think here.

Symbolically or for real? I have seen you question Roberts right to be robed. This is insane since he is more accomplished than Sotomayor to include having actually present cases (with a winning record) before SCOTUS. Sotomayor although likely credible from an education standpoint stands on judicial accomplishments that are entirely based on affirmative action hiring. There’s a sad testimony. A scholastically qualified candidate sullied by being a forever token. How many other worthy candidates lost out due to Sotomayors fast tracking. As for the wise Latina thing. OK sure it wasn’t the thing to hoist to the rafters. She is however a racist by association and one really has to ask how wise that is.I’ve seen from HP’s latest that he hates the idea of “racist by association”. I hope you hold that standard up for white guys too. Back in the day the great liberal lion Teddy K played Romney out as a racist simply because of his Mormon faith.

I have to share that HP did indeed have a list of things he views as Obama negatives. I’ll look at those too. What the hell in for a penny in for a pound.

1) So far, he has failed to deliver on HCR. He doesn’t have the political power that an LBJ did – and seemingly can’t whip his own party into line. I am still holding out hope that he and Democrats will get it done. All it will take is for the House to pass the Senate bill and the Senate to add a progressive sidecar through reconciliation. That will take some guts – and will require the realization that we will be taking a bath in 2010 midterms anyway so there is nothing to be lost by doing the right thing.

We’ve touched on this I think.

2) He bungled the Gates affair and looked like a fool as a result.

Yet Obama doesn’t have a racist cell in his body.I’m laughing on the inside.No really I am.

3) He put lots of political capital into securing the Olympics, and failed – looking like a fool.

Agreed and I won’t embellish.

4) He has taken a big hit with the public on the issue of executive compensation. His hands were tied on the issue of course – but he ended up taking a hit anyway. Perhaps worse, he failed to get it across to the public that the huge executive bonuses are a product of the unfettered free markets conservatives prefer. I scream every time I hear Obama criticized on executive pay because the conservative critics KNOW they are the ones responsible for the situation.

This is a negative? I don’t see your point especially seeing as the government has indeed imposed restrictions on executive compensation. The recent waiver required to retain the GM CEO…hello????

5) He has somehow managed to allow the conservatives – in disarray just a few months ago – to seize the narrative. I suspect it is because he failed to address the tea party movement, choosing to ignore it instead. In doing so he allowed it to gain strength to the point it is now doing some damage – both to him and the country.

You cite a negative here that I just don’t get. Are you saying Obama actually had anything to do with this? I actually give him a pass sorta on this. He actually tried not to be divisive. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on where you stand I don’t think he did anything wrong by not trying to stamp out democracy.

6) He overestimated his own political power – thinking that he could accomplish things based on his popularity, when in fact he couldn’t. This is probably a result of his inexperience in congress – he really did think he could change how things are done – and congress has reminded him it just isn’t that easy. The really ironic thing is the way that democrats have resisted him – for their own political gain. They made Scott Brown significant because they dragged their feet on HCR. It could all of been finished earlier had they not done so.

Well I will agree here especially the opening.

So there it is. One can say this was a massive waste of time and energy. I don’t care.One can rip it apart.I neither care or think one can honestly do so in it’s entirety anyway.HP captured the spirit in my opinion of what many otherwise sane Obama fans are saying. The fact that I disagree with the positions of those folks is what caused me the real need to seek release.

The chatter that is posing as dialog in America has been going on for far too long. I don’t see it changing any time soon and that’s sad for all of us.

The future of America does not lie with the minds like Barack Obama. It also most certainly does should not rely on any number of folks on the right.

America has a spending and debt problem. We have freedoms issues,are engaged in a global war without realistic allies and a host of other issues. Keynesian economics and progressive  (illegal and illogical) interpretations of the Constitution will not save us. I hope we realize this soon enough to save this great nation.

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24 Comments

  1. Elric66 says:

    I’ll leave the dealing with moronic race baiting drones to you. Its really a waste of time.

  2. I’m pretty sure that this post, being critical of the great and hallowed Chicago Messiah™ is somehow racist. Hater. 😉

  3. Alfie says:

    Thanks guys.
    HP in case you are reading this I wanted to continue my being fair program.
    I just returned from one of the ten things I like about government aka the public library. Whilst there I scanned the The New Republic dated 2/18. Within it’s pages it had a list of Obama accomplishments you and Rutherford should probably grab onto. Regulatory agency change is indeed an accomplishment of this administration that has far more real implications and legs than anything we’ve bandied about in our respective posts. It also had definite undertones and flat out statements in other articles that vastly improves your negatives list.
    So there it is. I went out amongst the opposition,read their bible and offered up an opinion. Cheers

  4. Tex Taylor says:

    Besides the built in prerequisite that progressive ideas were failures, are failures, and will be always be failures from here to eternity, I think you touched on Obama’s biggest mistake Alfie.

    Libs like Rutherford and Hippie mistook Obama’s being elected as an indicator of Americans wanting to reestablishing Jimmah Carter’s rehashed failed ideas of the economy plus Hillary Rotten’s health care redux, plus the added attribute of Obama’s rotten cabinet made up of socialists, pedophiles, communists, bullies, Mao admirers, man haters, and racists determining that methodology. So did Bomba.

    All of them misread the election as an indicator of national progressive wishes, as Obama has proven himself incapable of managing putting his daughters to bed without a teleprompter, the entire regime has been an unmitigated disaster including their dubious foreign policy, and now they will pay the price this November. Well deserved too. 😉

  5. Rutherford says:

    Another preposterous claim that Obama is a racist. It just never ends. And of course the equally preposterous claim from BiW that anyone who criticizes Obama will be called a racist.

    Oh and of course, the pithy and insightful contribution of Elric. Good to see you out and about old boy! 🙂

  6. Alfie says:

    So Rutherford when you say

    Another preposterous claim that Obama is a racist. It just never ends.

    are you referring to me??
    The only place I see I’ve come close is with

    Yet Obama doesn’t have a racist cell in his body.I’m laughing on the inside.No really I am.

    I think the Gates affair highlights the concept of prejudicial racism that can be and is held by those of any color. I know it doesn’t fit the definition of racism you subscribe to but whatever. Your def is wrong.
    If I missed a different reference let me know.
    Hello Tex and thank you for adding to the thread.You touch on something I saw regards the MA senate election. People including the Indies wanted some change.Many of those folks have been quoted that Obama has only exasperated gridlock etc. We’ll see in November.

  7. Elric66 says:

    “Oh and of course, the pithy and insightful contribution of Elric. Good to see you out and about old boy!”

    Some bloggers arent pussies and ban people ol boy! 🙂

  8. Rutherford says:

    Some bloggers arent pussies and ban people ol boy!

    Mmmm, that’s odd. Last time I checked, I wasn’t banning anyone on my blog. 😉

  9. Rutherford says:

    Alfie, yes you picked the quote to which I was referring.

    Obama made only one mistake with the Gates affair. It was beneath him to comment on it at all. It was early in Obama’s first year and I don’t think he understood yet that he’s not a celebrity or everybody’s pal. He’s the friggin President. Let Oprah comment on Gates getting busted in his own home. Not Obama.

    That said, anyone who cannot fathom the fire alarms that go off when a black man is accused of breaking into his own home by a white cop just doesn’t have a clue. The fact is Gates acted like a jerk. The cop, who had all the power, let his power get the best of him and (as Obama said) acted stupidly. Was the cop racist? I don’t think so. I think he was on a power trip. Gates was probably on a “Harvard faculty” trip. Everybody was trippin’.

    Obama’s reaction was human, not racist. But again, for the leader of the free world, it was inappropriate.

  10. Rutherford says:

    Oh one more thing … yes a racial analysis. I don’t think Lynn Sweet would have asked George W. Bush his opinion about Gates getting arrested. Quite frankly, Sweet went down a racist path of her own assuming that a black president had to have an opinion about some local police incident that might involve race. Sweet should not have asked the question and Obama’s best response to her really should have been “why the f*ck are you asking ME that? Cos I’m a BLACK man?”

  11. Elric66 says:

    “Mmmm, that’s odd. Last time I checked, I wasn’t banning anyone on my blog.”

    You lie even worse than that POS “president”. Quite an accomplishment moron.

  12. Rutherford says:

    Careful Elric … you’re sounding awfully like Joe Wilson. He might have gotten lots of campaign money from his outburst but very little credibility.

    Speaking of credibility, granted this is not my blog, but care to share anything relevant to the topic at hand? Or are you still content with name-calling one-liners?

  13. Alfie says:

    FWIW R I would have agreed with Obama if he said “why the f*ck are you asking ME that? Cos I’m a BLACK man?”
    But he didn’t. He passed all knowing judgement on the CPD. In my world that all knowing judgement is a form of racism. It is as much a problem as the acts that cause that knowledge to come about.
    We’ll not agree much on racism,perhaps the positives that could come about regards race relations but not racism.
    In my final defense I stated not that Obama was a racist,just that he is not without the sin of racism within him.

  14. Elric66 says:

    Too funny. Dodger isnt man enough to debate me on his blog so he has to do it somewhere else.

  15. Rutherford says:

    Elric would you please look up debate in the dictionary? I’m not debating you here because you’re not presenting any position.

    Sorry, Alfie … I’m done on the Elric thread, not fair to you to clutter your blog with this silliness.

  16. Rutherford says:

    In my final defense I stated not that Obama was a racist, just that he is not without the sin of racism within him.

    I’ll compromise with you. Obama is not “above” coming to racially based conclusions.

  17. Elric66 says:

    “Sorry, Alfie … I’m done on the Elric thread, not fair to you to clutter your blog with this silliness.”

    Good, go back to your blog liar and brag about how al-Thuggy is robbing your kid’s future.

  18. Sure looks like ya opened up a can of worms Alfie. 😀

  19. I find it interesting that one of the “top” bloggers around refuses debate. Is it the format? Or possibly not wanting to trash out another’s blog? Now, that I could find as honorable.

    Elric, I am willing to host an uproar where Rutherford and yourself can slay each other. Perhaps Alfie could do some color commentary on the side..?

    Let me know, I’ll start a debate thread. But, if Alfie wants the hits etc? It’s all yours friend!

    Hell, maybe I can get some assistance from PCW! Masters of Marketing..?

  20. Elric66 says:

    Patrick,

    He wont debate me. He is too much a coward. On his blog I got tired of challenging him without a response so I quit asking him simple questions. Well then the moron asked me a question and I ignored his punk ass., He got pissed off because I didnt show him “respect” by answering. Well he didnt like it and the pussy banned me for it. So its really futile getting into a debate with him. He is just like any typical progressive drone. He isnt worth the effort but I appreciate the offer.

  21. That’s the sort of “respect” thing that one would expect of, say “Logan Heights” or “La Me” from the looks of it. In any case, Alfie’s place isn’t where this contest of Gladiators should be held. He (Alfie) didn’t ask for it.

    Have a good one.

  22. Elric66 says:

    You too Patrick

  23. Rutherford says:

    Patrick, I don’t recognize your name so if you’ve visited my blog I apologize for not remembering. I gather you know Elric and I also have to guess your calling me a “top” blogger is sarcasm. That’s ok. I know I’m not Daily Kos or HuffPo (or Drudge LOL).

    Elric’s account of our dispute comes pretty close to the truth. I did ban him in a fit of ego because I felt he was addressing all my readers in the comments section and was very deliberately ignoring me, the host of the blog, who had graciously allowed him to essentially spam my blog with link after link, mostly about the dangers of Islam.

    Elric’s pattern on my blog was to post a link with a one-liner. Or maybe pull out a quote and paste it in. Very little original thought from him and an absolute refusal to shed any light on how he personally came to the views that he had. Despite one reader writing me that he would no longer comment on the blog because Elric was there, I continued to give Elric more or less free reign. (I finally did ask him to limit his Islam links and try to stay on topic.)

    Bottom line Elric is the only person I have ever banned on my site, and as I so obliquely hinted to him in this thread, he is no longer banned. I removed him from my banned list on Christmas Eve (I kid you not … and I’m not even a Christian). It is his prerogative not to comment on the blog, but he isn’t banned. (His first comment may go into moderation because WordPress no longer recognizes his id for my blog, but once I approve that, he’s right back to where he was last year.)

    Finally, I want you to notice something Patrick. Elric has accused me of debating him here because I won’t do it on my own blog. Could you please point out for me what position Elric has taken in this thread that I can debate with him? I haven’t found it yet.

    Alfie …. sorry I know I said I’d drop this but since Patrick has jumped into the fray (no pun intended) I felt the need to defend myself.

  24. Elric66 says:

    Man this summit is cracking me up. al-Thuggy said time doesnt apply to him because he is “president” and that their health care bill is “a prop”.

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