The Tancredo To Do

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I’ve had a bit of back and forth with blogger HippieProf on the Tom Tancredo comment fest at the for profit Tea Party in Nashville.

Basically HP is on the side that Tancredo is a racist. If I’ve oversimplified HP’s position I truly apologize,but I don’t think I have.

The biggest sticking point I have with the entire Left on this is the fallacy that Tancredo has actually called for or proposed literacy tests.Whether civics literacy or more importantly literacy in the traditional sense the blogosphere ala Leftdom is afire with it.

Well not to completely defeat my position I offer supposedly Tancredos clarification to “journalist” John Avlon:

“I would suggest to you that a lot of people who voted for the president who didn’t know a thing about the process and couldn’t care less about it….I would use the same test on civic literacy that we have immigrants take….If you’re an American citizen who can’t pass the same test we immigrants take, then I don’t think you should vote.” Defending the integrity of the Constitution apparently has its limits.

If I’m getting the context right Tancredo did not say this to the audience in Tn. Various embeds seem to bail that out well.

Now back to my little world.(yeah, yeah joke all you want about how fucked up a place that must be)

What in the quote fails to capture what is supposedly at the core of an American Public Education System civics class???

So if you can take a deep breath and open your mind beyond your innate hatred of Republicans,proud Americans etc. you too should see the truth.

Tancredo rails against a failure of voters comprehension of what should exist in a democracy,an American one anyway. Clearly his position is that Socialism in the form of Obamanism is bad.Whatever.

I don’t see the reason for pitchforks and torches in the square but then again….I passed the test.

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19 Comments

  1. Elric66 says:

    Why do you even try with these race baiters?

  2. Alfie says:

    It’s like potato chips….ya just can’t eat one.

  3. Elric66 says:

    Well if you dont mind being called a latent homosexual because you oppose open gays in the military………..

  4. Alfie says:

    In all fairness I’m not sure that’s where he is going to go. I give peeps some liberty. I’m adding a question set on that thread and would welcome your input btw.

  5. Elric66 says:

    Whenever the question is up, I’ll add my input.

  6. *chuckles*
    Alfie, I’m not sure if you have noticed, but, I don’t ever post at HP’s place. Not that I wouldn’t mind a debate of sorts, but, I think that he’s as big an attention whore as Sarah Palin is.

    In any case,way back in 66 when I REALLY wanted out of Junior High School, myself, and every other student that wanted to get into High School had to pass this well? This “civics” test that was called “The Constitution Test.” Don’t pass, you don’t go beyond eighth grade, period. I think that is what Tom was talking about, or something like it anyways. I also happen to agree with that,and no, not a poll tax or anything at all along those lines. In reference to a previous post, the “r” word, the kids that rode the short bus had pretty much the same fail rate as the rest of the kids did, about ten percent. After summer school virtually all passed. That included kids from Samoa that were learning the language, Native American kids that spoke Pala away from school,and yes, migrant workers from Mexico’s kids too.

  7. hippieprof says:

    So if you can take a deep breath and open your mind beyond your innate hatred of Republicans,proud Americans etc. you too should see the truth.

    Alfie – that really isn’t quite fair. I don’t hate Republicans – that would mean hating my parents and in fact hating myself at a younger age. I don’t hate proud Americans – and in fact I believe I am a proud American. In fact, I am a bit taken aback by the implication that being a proud American means I can have only one opinion on political issues.

    Not sure if you saw this on my blog – posted it on my months ago. If you get a chance please read it. It is about my family’s “real American patriot” cred. I am pretty proud of my family history of patriotism and would take serious issue with anyone suggesting otherwise.

    http://hippieprofessor.com/2009/09/04/moonbat-patriotism/

    — hp

  8. hippieprof says:

    Patrick said….

    Alfie, I’m not sure if you have noticed, but, I don’t ever post at HP’s place. Not that I wouldn’t mind a debate of sorts, but, I think that he’s as big an attention whore as Sarah Palin is.

    Well pleased to meet you too, Patrick…

    😉

    No – I suspect I am a bigger attention whore than Sarah – or at least I have to work harder for it. I struggle to get 60 hits a day on my blog. She sneezes and the press follow her. Must be her looks….

    — hp

  9. Alfie says:

    HP point of order….The you in that statement isn’t aimed specifically at you.As for your other objection it is aimed at a comment that would’ve been entirely (almost anyways) different in a real world conversation. I think people throughout the political spectrum can be proud Americans. I was simply continuing my defense motion for Tancredo. No worries.

  10. Elric66 says:

    “I don’t hate proud Americans – and in fact I believe I am a proud American.”

    Nahh you just call them racist “tea baggers”. You really arent any better than that drone Dodger.

  11. *chuckles* No kidding Elric!

    In any case, I met Tom years ago, and have watched him from his days at the Independence Institute in Golden. is he perfect? Of course not. No one is. By the same token, I also know that he is no racist, not by any means.

    And Tom, if you are reading this, my Chili Verde is still better than yours!

  12. hippieprof says:

    Patrick said….

    “By the same token, I also know that he is no racist, not by any means.”

    Good – I am glad to hear that. Since you apparently know him tell him to stop talking like one. Frankly it does your party a disservice.

    — hp

  13. HP, I am not a Republican. Actually, I am registered as “unaffiliated.” I am a Conservative with a rather decided Libertarian bent. So, he does no disservice to my “party.”

    I don’t see what he said as racist at all. Just a practical observation by him, about a problem, and his idea for a possible solution.

  14. Elric66 says:

    “I don’t see what he said as racist at all. Just a practical observation by him, about a problem, and his idea for a possible solution.”

    Pat you must remember that these lib drones see racism in everything. Now calling al-Thuggy a Professor is racist.

  15. hippieprof says:

    Patrick said…. I don’t see what he said as racist at all. Just a practical observation by him, about a problem, and his idea for a possible solution.

    I bet you thought I forgot about this – been busy putting out fires elsewhere and it took me a while to get back. Maybe you are right that I am an attention whore – though I like to think I do this because I really am interested in discussing the issues.

    You probably have to read between a few lines to see the racist implications – and perhaps I am prone to reading between those lines in particular ways. We all filter our perceptions through our existing attitudes.

    Here is how I am putting it together:

    1) He suggested Obama won because he received votes from people who couldn’t speak proper English. Generally such people are found in minority ethnic groups.

    2) He suggested a solution would be to require literacy tests. If indeed this is a solution to the problem identified in #1 then he is proposing a method to eliminate minority voters from the voting pool.

    3) Literacy tests have in the past been used for exactly that – as a way to keep minorities from voting.

    So – although this does require some interpretation on my part it isn’t that hard to see.

    — hp

  16. Alfie says:

    One mans reading through lines is another’s seeing either what isn’t there or what the viewer wants to see.
    Tancredo’s suggestion was aimed at civics literacy. The thinking behind this appears to be that if voters were more aware of democracy,branch powers,socialism and the failure that is Keynesian economics Obama would not have been elected.
    HP ,I suppose I can applaud your tenaciousness and passion at the same to time stating I believe it is misplaced. Your take on the literacy issue is straight out of the New Left Handbook Vol. 1. I dare say the same view is what powers your entrenched belief of power+prejudice=racism.
    FWIW I don’t think you are an attention whore. I think you like dialog,have opinions and beliefs and stand by them. I think you also have a desire to share your views and to at least hear others points.

  17. hippieprof says:

    Alfie said…. One mans reading through lines is another’s seeing either what isn’t there or what the viewer wants to see.

    I absolutely agree. In fact, that is what I meant when I said that we filter our perceptions through our existing attitudes. All of us do it – it is very difficult (and some would say impossible) to be objective about any of this.

    The thinking behind this appears to be that if voters were more aware of democracy,branch powers,socialism and the failure that is Keynesian economics Obama would not have been elected.

    But – don’t you see that there is a problem in that very statement? That Keynesian economics was a failure is very much a conservative talking point – but you won’t get a liberal to agree on that. In fact, most liberals would tell you that recent market events represent a failure of Chicago School monetarist economics. How can you propose to give an objective test if passing the test presupposes a particular viewpoint?

    (BTW – I would be happy to debate economic theory sometime – but lets not go off on that tangent now)

    I dare say the same view is what powers your entrenched belief of power+prejudice=racism.

    I don’t know that it is really an entrenched belief (which I take to meant that it is accepted but unexamined). To be honest, this definition of racism makes quite a lot of sense to me. Certainly you would agree that disliking someone when you don’t have power over them is a different thing from disliking someone when you do have power. Lets use the Nazi Germany example. Clearly the Nazi’s were racists – they had both prejudice and power over the Jews. I suspect that the Jews were themselves prejudiced against Nazis and Aryan Germans – but we wouldn’t want to call them racists – they had prejudice but they had no power.

    I do enjoy dialog and I relish a good debate. I also think that our country is in big trouble if we can’t find a way to trust each other and talk about our differences of opinion in a rational way. I appreciate that I can do that here.

    — hp

  18. Alfie says:

    regards entrenched
    No, I think you’ve examined your positions quite thoroughly and I’m not moving you even if I had two tons of TNT.
    econ policy etc
    Let’s not for now and said we did. Again I fall victim of keyboard communication as opposed to in person dialog.Civics is definitely a subject that must be presented without emotion,jingoism,or any type of agenda. I personally don’t want “programmed” or coached people casting votes. I dream of those that put more thought & time into candidates and initiatives than say which American Idol contestant is best.

  19. hippieprof says:

    Alfie said…. I dream of those that put more thought & time into candidates and initiatives than say which American Idol contestant is best.

    Alfie, I couldn’t agree more. My 2nd-oldest daughter is applying for colleges this year. In her application essay she opened with the observation that as violent protests broke out in Iran over the elections, all of America was glued to their TVs waiting for news about….

    Michael Jackson.

    Kinds sums it up, huh?

    — hp

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