In2 Obama is a liar

Hope and change ? I don’t think so. Barack Obama has lied from day one. Now I accept that most of his lies are the good old fashioned politics type of lie. Double speak,bull shit promises and chum bits tossed to any given shark in any set of partisan waters.

It’s still a pack of lies though and we all deserve better. Whether you like or dislike Mr. Wilsons stand you have to accept that there is a grain of truth in what he said and more so in what he did.

Let’s hear from you….

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26 Comments

  1. The Center Square says:

    Actually, there is NOT even a grain of truth to the idea that the healthcare reform bills will cover illegal aliens in this country.

    And that is why Wilson is such an idiot. There are many objectionable provisions to the healthcare bills being considered; instead of those those, and chose to protest a non-existent provision. There are many constructive ways to express his views; he chose the ONE way that is inherently radical and contrary to every conservative principle. There are legitimate grounds for seething frustration; he threw all that out the window by indulging in an immature antic. What a dope.

    My views on his outburst: http://thecentersquare.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/what-was-rep-wilson-thinking/.

  2. Alfie says:

    Yet the Congress is now underway to set forth specific language that would conceivably make Wilson et al happy. It’ll be interesting if that gets someone else screaming something.
    I am putting it to any and all that standing up in furor may very well be the best thing. Right Left or Center faux piety,politeness and flash are not going to get the job done no matter what side of the issue you’re on.

  3. Elric66 says:

    “Actually, there is NOT even a grain of truth to the idea that the healthcare reform bills will cover illegal aliens in this country.”

    Then why does Thuggy and his ilk always include the illegals in the “Americans” that are uninsured?

  4. The Center Square says:

    @ Elric: Both are true. The statistical count of uninsured Americans include illegals. AND none of the bills will cover them.

    Why the hell do people think two things can’t be true, just because they favor different political ideologies???

    If this is your idea of validating the incontrovertibly false attack made by Rep. Wilson (“Sure he was wrong, but I don’t like the president’s policies, so it doesn’t matter that he was wrong”), then you are a part of the problem. *sheesh*

    http://thecentersquare.wordpress.com/

  5. Actually, anyone can go to an emergency room and get care. Emergency, or not. That’s the law of the land, and would not be changed a single iota.

    As usual, The Center Square frames issues to suit the ideology of political correctness…

  6. The Center Square says:

    @ Sperry: My comments were addressed to Wilson’s outburst, not the healthcare debate. If you have something to say, address my comments.

  7. The Red Pill says:

    Yeah, Congress keeps revising language we are told doesn’t exist.

    When their loopholes, nuance and double-speak gets called out by people like Palin and Wilson, it forces Congress to look at the language from an ideology other than its own, and in at least 2 cases now, it has shown them another way which that wording can be taken, and have changed or deleted it.

    Palin’s “Death Panels” was exaggerated wording meant to play on emotion, but it produced results in the Senate plan. And the same is the case with Wilson’s outburst.

    The methods might be questionable to some, but the results can’t be if people are honest with themselves.

  8. The Center Square says:

    @ Red Pill: What changes in any bill do you attribute to Palin’s “death panel” comments, or Wilson’s “You lie!” shout? Specifically.

  9. Alfie says:

    The Senate moved to beef up wording in direct response to Wilsons comment and the House is being directed by the Oval via channels to pursue verification clauses which the House specifically has blocked twice previously. Do we need to go the link route or can we concede this is in fact what has been reported Friday and Saturday on various wires ?

  10. The Red Pill says:

    And the Senate has completely removed all “end-of-life” language from its proposal a couple weeks ago.

  11. Elric66 says:

    “AND none of the bills will cover them.”

    And you know this how?

  12. The Center Square says:

    From reading them. But don’t ask me to disprove the negative. If you (or Rep. Wilson) think one or more of bills will cover illegal aliens, show me where that language is.

  13. Alfie says:

    I’ve only read HR3200. I’ve seen excerpts of Whyden (?spelling) as well as Baucus but unfortunately these are not the end alls so speculation and concern occurs and is imo warranted.
    Specifically back to grain of truth I’d like to stress that two previous attempts by the house to prevent verification of citizenship is of real concern regardless of say section 246 of hr3200. As it has been said it’s like having a speed limit sign without enforcement.

  14. The Center Square says:

    Here’s the State Patrol officer with the radar gun, so to speak, taken from HR 3200 [http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/]:

    “H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    Are you saying the grain of truth is the two amendments referenced by Rep. Wilson, amendments that were defeated? If that’s the case, shouldn’t he, and you, actually be COMMENDING the House for defeating the amendments? Why attack the president (versus the House), and why not celebrate the defeat of the amendments? If that’s his explanation, his actions just make no sense.

  15. Elric66 says:

    The language is that they include the illegals when they talk about the uninsured and wanting to insure everyone. Besides, whats to stop them from putting it in at the last minute like the pork bill? Frankly I dont trust these marxists one bit. Do you?

  16. The Center Square says:

    They are doing what they campaigned on, and what we elected them to do. So, my answer is, I trust them to follow through on that. At the same time, you are among the minority who wanted the election to go the other way. So, that’s a fair comment on your part that you don’t trust them.

    I must say, though, that you seem to discount the language actually in the bill, and be critical of provisions that aren’t in the bill. That’s not fair.

  17. Elric66 says:

    “So, that’s a fair comment on your part that you don’t trust them.”

    No, I dont trust people that add 300 pages to a bill in the middle of the night. Tell me why should I should trust such shady scumbags?

  18. Alfie says:

    TCS: if you’re addressing what I’ve added the “amendments” would’ve assured citizenship verification and they were blocked. I’m not celebrating that in any way shape or form. You used a speed trap analogy and I returned with the speed limit sign and no enforcement. I think I’m more right here even if I admit tobeing a bit biased on that.

  19. The Center Square says:

    @ Alfie: My point is that no one is right, or wrong — yet. There is no legislation even on the floor of the House/Senate, much less passed. What is wrong is the tone. If people want to stand up and say, “Make sure there are appropriate safeguards to ensure that coverage is not extended to illegals,” I would have no problem with that. My problem is with the many people (not so much you) who claim that illegals ARE covered under the bills, or are insinuating that the House WANTS them to be covered and are just waiting for people to look away for a minute for that to happen. Other than generic cynicism, there is no basis for that.

    Not that cynicism is totally unwarranted either. When I see people who savagely attack the state of affairs in Congress, rather than just Democrats, and who understand that current and past Republicans have contributed their full share to the utter dysfunction that is today’s House of Representatives, they have my full support. Only when people are so ideologically blinded as to think this is an “Obama thing” or a “Pelosi thing” or even a “liberal thing” do I push back.

  20. Elric66 says:

    “My problem is with the many people (not so much you) who claim that illegals ARE covered under the bills, or are insinuating that the House WANTS them to be covered and are just waiting for people to look away for a minute for that to happen. Other than generic cynicism, there is no basis for that.”

    I’ll go by their past behavior. You still havent given a reason to trust them. We are talking about thieves that stole from the Social Security trust fund. If they were in the private sector, they would be in jail. So tell me again why I should trust them?

  21. The Center Square says:

    Thieves take someone else’s money and put it in their pocket. You are accusing whom of doing that? I do not understand the Social Security trust fund reference.

    Again, this goes to the whole tone of political debate in this country. Branding public servants as “thieves,” because one disagrees with their politics, is polarizing. The direct consequence is that conservative parts of the country send highly partisan conservatives to Congress, and liberal parts of the country do the same — and we get stuck with the terrible government we deserve.

  22. As a member of the “Read the Bills Act” coalition I think we should all note that there still is nothing written in stone. Just a lot of ideas being spread around.

    For once I will agree with Center Square. What we end up with is mediocrity in government as a result of all the compromise.

    However, at this point, I still see no provisions anywhere that would deny emergency care to anyone. I really do not have a problem with that, as long as it is a true emergency. The abuse of that law has caused the closing of several hospitals, including trauma centers, mostly in California. As a retired Paramedic, I find that appalling.

  23. Elric66 says:

    “You are accusing whom of doing that?”

    Congress

    “Branding public servants as “thieves,” because one disagrees with their politics, is polarizing.”

    No I call them thieves because they stole. They also love to cheat on their taxes while raising everybody else’s.

  24. The Center Square says:

    Sorry, Elric, I’m still lost. Stole what again?

    (Maybe I’m dazed from Patrick and I agreeing on something!)

  25. Elric66 says:

    The Social Security trust fund

  26. The Center Square says:

    Okay, that answers that. But in what fashion was the trust fund stolen, who took it, and who has it now?

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