In2 If you waterboard Nancy Pelosi would she tell the truth…

I’m only passing through today but the question begged to be asked. I was listening to NP’s presser and it was driving me nuts. I didn’t get the female reporters name but kudos to her for dogging Madame Speaker. Nancy is lying her ass off and is the template for all others who now want to cover themselves on the torture debate and reality.




  1. Elric66 says:


    Now if Rush said that, would you call him a clown? Will Wickle call you a right wing hater? Inquiring minds want to know. 🙂

  2. Marc says:

    She knew. She knew all along. She still knows. She is lying. On this issue at least, she’s being a lying piece of shit.

    See all the difference some caps make?

    I mean, Alfie’s not being controversial, he’s just stating the facts.

  3. Elric66 says:

    No I dont see the difference. Seems kinda clownish to me. 🙂

  4. opit says:

    She’s in an impossible position. If I wanted to right to the edge I’d note that Cheney kept a torture room at the White House…convenient for whatever ‘The Shooter’ might dream up. More obviously, anyone not doing everything they could to stop Malevolence Incorporated would have to decide if they were more afraid of the law – and Gonzales was right in there promoting torture – or of those who had power and electronic information and resources to break anybody…or worse. Don’t forget Bush’s daddy was CIA head and President…among other things…and knew where the bodies were buried.
    So Nancy…not to put too fine a face on it…was up the creek without the proverbial means of propulsion. She was accessory to acts which are punishable by death – no question because she didn’t stop it. But that wasn’t an option.
    Plus, there was a ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ card authorized by Congress for all and sundry. Let’s reflect on what that means for a moment. Here’s the Wikipedia reference
    So that’s why the Hague – o Spain – aren’t going to happen either.
    Obama ? Yeah, right. That – honestly – would be a shock.

  5. Elric66 says:

    What torture?

  6. opit says:

    Have you been living under a rock ? Guantanamo and al Ghraib.
    That’s a military report.

  7. wickle says:

    Of course she knew.

    She’s a calculating political hack who didn’t see the percentage in coming out against anything at the time, then she hoped to gain by playing on other people’s moral outrage. Now that she’s been caught, she’s lamely complaining that the CIA lied to her.

    As I just said in my own post, if what she’s saying is true, she’d have already launched hearings to look into who made up this plan to lie to her and why. She’s not doing that because she wants it to go away.

  8. Elric66 says:

    Thats not torture.

  9. opit says:

    It’s not that it isn’t torture. It’s that the penalties imposed by U.S. law have been removed by Congress. This is why Spain has tried to act in the fashion of the Nuremburg trials initiated by the U.S. after WW II : it is a statutory requirement they do so…as in the U.S.

  10. Elric66 says:

    I could care less what Spain did or does. We got information from these scumbags that saved lives. Good enough for me.

  11. opit says:

    Show me the information. I’ve corresponded with a Military Intelligence Interrogation instructor. He assured me years ago that torture was not anything like or in the nature of a way to secure useful information. Nothing I have seen from people who ought to know has shaken that assessment.
    ’24’ is fiction. Read it and weep.

  12. Elric66 says:

    Must be why Nobama wont release the memos Cheney requested proving otherwise. Read it and weep.

  13. opit says:

    Oh, THAT impeccable source ! Have you seen this little gem ?
    *** due to noting some tracking on the site I’ve editied the youtube embed. copy and past to watch the vid

  14. Elric66 says:

    SO why wont Nobama release the memos?

  15. opit says:

    Stupid question. She’s not the one who authorized torture. Cheney, on the other hand, was among those leading a f**king parade with a cheering section.
    I do trust you realize in partisan politics and in this matter it only proves – nothing embarasses Cheney !

  16. Mr Pink Eyes says:

    Every day she has a new story but the bottom line is that she knew and her silence means that she approved of it. As soon as it became politically viable to oppose waterboarding she jumped on that ship. That is what is so vile about this woman.

  17. Alfie says:

    @opit, I need to ask…Does Pelosi deserve any scorn in your opinion ?
    I will add that the disclosure issue is very politically charged. On one hand Cheney demands the release hoping that bolsters his position but knows full well that the material can’t be released. On the other hand if the material is truly releasable and Obama fails to do so in the support of partisan politics he’s kind of failed a major point of his own platform.
    As for the torture debate. It wasn’t my intent to go there with this post per se so I’ll refrain from commenting too much on that thread point. I will say that I’ve known MI folks that also didn’t like torture but did embrace Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. I was always left feeling these were more psyche oriented procedures that you find in law enforcement on the civilian side. I’ll also restate my previous that torture in it’s truest form has other goals and info isn’t one of them.

  18. Alfie says:

    I also have to add this on the American Servicemembers Protection Act. It has implications and very good ones in my opinion for those in the service in these globalized political world. There are a number of things the ICC and other UN bastard factions could dream up that have nothing to do with enforcing laws on torture. The average Joe shouldn’t be available for essentially Euro weenie pansy boy justice. I’d also add that the US has done a pretty good job policing itself and it’s members of the military. Far better than other nations.

    Also on the ASPA the Obama Administrations selection of Koh represents a potential issue n this piece of legislation. Koh supports abolishing it yet false allegations that he supported Islamist law was all the rage. Previous Fray

  19. Elric66 says:

    It wasnt torture and I guess you are too scared to answer a simple question. But then you are a nutjob who thinks Cheney had a torture chamber in the White House.

  20. opit says:

    They all deserve scorn. The real question is what baseline do you employ ? The Brits were reviled by Europe only 30 years ago for torture. The US was told not to get into Nuremburg from the first beacuse it would set standards that would be embarassing later.
    It wasn’t the late Bush administraion that set up the School of the Americas.
    What pees me off the that assholes walk and hypocrites have no credit.
    TANJ : There Ain’t No Justice’. Nor do I see any way to make it happen.
    So known innocents have been kidnapped, tortured, murdered and left to rot : and people talk about justice from the country that has done more shit outside its own borders and call it defence than any other.
    There isn’t any fix for this brew : courage isn’t even the only problem.
    I get more media Talking Points from this comment thread than most. I know about the 101st Fighting Keyboarders : quislings calling others on their patriotism. What they mean is slavish devotion to their masters. Needing a daddy that bad isn’t loyalty though. It’s pissant cowardice.
    Pelosi : just a bad disappointment. It’s politics. One gets used to it.

  21. italco says:

    LOL…be careful or you will all make her a victim. Yes, she knew…no doubt.

    However, this is nothing more than using the Carl Rove tactics of the past. Blame everything done wrong and negative on the Democrats and take credit for everything positive (you know, like they do/did with President Clinton…lol).

  22. Elric66 says:

    Define torture. Well besides having to read your rants.

  23. opit says:

    Rants. Look what’s talking. What is torture ? Shouldn’t be hard to figure : there are standards.
    But I’ll really be ‘unreasonable’. When I see pictures of prisoners at Gitmo, they are hooded and kneeling. Sensory deprivation is a known attack on personality which leads to madness in short order. Being bound and movement restricted is one of the oldest means to inflict pain. Putting people on display in what might otherwise surmise is an ‘exercise yard’ is boldly proclaiming that one is PROUD of torture : not that there is any question when two basic techniques are blatantly advertised.

  24. Elric66 says:

    Forgive me if I dont go by what the UN defines as torture. Given on who they put on Human Right Councils, its obvious they dont even know what human rights are.

    So how would you extract information from jihadists that would save lives? That is if you would even want to.

  25. jonolan says:

    Ahhh, Opit. I see you’re still trying to sell that tired old anti-Americanism that is the stock and trade of the Liberals. Guess what, fewer and fewer people are buying it these days – though you all still have a large base of indoctrinated traitors to work with.

    Hell, even your boy, Obama is learning the realities on the ground and is continuing the process that work to keep humans safe from Islamist vermin.

    Just remember that sooner or later the winds of politics and law will shift and, when that time comes, we’ll remember who you and all like you stood with now – Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas, CAIR, Pelosi, Reid.

  26. Alfie says:

    In no particular order…
    Thank you Jonolan for stopping by.
    Wickle..Thanks for stopping by. Politics are truly a dirty biz and trying on ones humanity if not one’s faith at times.
    Mr. Pink Eyes… Good to see ya neighbor. Thanks for stopping by.
    italco: Thanks for stopping by. saw you over at Joes. a good blog even twc’s stuff. thanks for following up over there and perhaps I’ll click over to your joint and check it out
    opit. well I don’t find myself a big talking points kind of guy albeit I’m biased on that. I’ll say you’ve added some comments that jarred the grey matter but more to the point of expressing myself in another post. So thanks I guess. On a direct note of any potential dialog between us. I feel Pelosi is far more than a disappointment and I for one will never allow myself to the getting used to bad politics and bad politicians. In that I think I’ll find myself in good company of many diverse individuals and come what may that’s where I’d rather find myself.

  27. italco says:

    Alfie – You are always welcome.

  28. opit says:

    That question is easy, actually. Given a need to question a suspect for information, police techniques used by the section which actually specialized in such did good work. If you read the Taqueba Report, you’ll find there was a shuffle from people who were experts to those who didn’t have Clue One. The predictable occured.
    For centuries, detective work has used techniques painstakingly built up over centuries. Why would anyone wanting good information throw away the tools to produce it ?

    I see Jonolan is still selling Treason as the motive for those who don’t think idiocy will give better results than planned and directed activity. Look in the Mirror.

  29. Elric66 says:

    You forgot to thank me

  30. Alfie says:

    Elric take your pick
    A) I did but I deleted it. B) you’re a more regular if unusual commenter so how often am I supposed to thank folks C) fine,thanks for fueling parts of the thread.

  31. Curator says:

    When given the chance, why didn’t Porter Goss the former GOP Congressman say whether he and Pelosi had been told that enhanced interrogation techniques had been used? Goss did not write in the Washington Post that he was told that torture had been used, but instead wrote that he was told that the CIA was “holding and interrogating” suspects and that EITs had been developed.

    So the Republican Congressman who was there in the room during Pelosi’s briefing won’t say definitively that the CIA’s claim is accurate, and that Pelosi was briefed on the use of torture.

  32. Alfie says:

    This will be a one time deal. The full menagerie that is the buzz on Goss is all over the place (political spectrum wise) so I don’t give it much credence.
    The fact that this allegedly intelligent woman needs to lie and spin a story and obviously sit in her chair hoping it all goes away or that people stop caring speaks louder

  33. Curator says:

    “The full menagerie that is the buzz on Goss is all over the place (political spectrum wise) so I don’t give it much credence.”

    How obscure can you get? What is it…you don’t like his politics hence he is not credible? He changed his position on something hence he is not credible?

    Pelosi has admitted that she was briefed by the CIA in 2002 about waterboarding, but not that they are using these techniques, just that they have these techniques and legal opinions backing them up. Pelosi is guilty of contradicting herself when she said in February: “I can say flat out, they never told us that these enhancement interrogations were being used.” and then in April, she said that “we were not told” about the program at any briefing.

    Did the CIA lie when they stated from their records that they had briefed Former Sen. Bob Graham four times on torture policies, when in fact they only briefed him once?

    What we have is Democrats offering one (not always entirely accurate) story and the CIA and some Republicans offering a different (and, again, not always entirely accurate) story.

  34. Alfie says:

    It is my recollection that:

    — The chairs and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, known as the Gang of Four, were briefed that the CIA was holding and interrogating high-value terrorists.

    — We understood what the CIA was doing.

    — We gave the CIA our bipartisan support.

    — We gave the CIA funding to carry out its activities.

    — On a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission against al-Qaeda.-Porter Goss

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