Dhimmi? Dummy? Thinker! My Muslim Day…

rodin_thinker_detail

It was actually two separate incidents on consecutive days but hey I had to title it something.

Number 1

I was at the local library and it was kinda crowded. I had to make a dash for the door and BAM there’s these four girls and a maternal type adult. They had the whole hijab thing going in the al -amira style. Because I’m polite I said “hello” and “excuse me”. You know what they said ? They smiled and one said “hello” back.

Number 2

So I’m at the local supermarket and I decided on the following menu: Pork tenderloin w/ honey mustard seasoning, roasted potatoes, peas and carrots. I get to the checkout and the female clerk is wearing hijab. I’ve encountered this cashier a number of times before and I have to confess she has a rather gruff demeanor; however, she’s actually very professional and oddly personable when you engage her. Well the tenderloin rolls down the belt towards the scanner annd she …….. picked it up scanned it, bagged it and we shared “good days” as I took off to home and the kitchen. It was a very good dinner btw.

What’s the point ?

Well for number one it was just another episode in my life in my fairly diverse ‘hood. Whether the white policeman, the Muslim clerk, the Indians playing cricket on the little league field or any number of other people,shades and creeds I’ve happily experienced the way life on this damn blue marble should be and I’m happy about it.

The second bit speaks directly to the popular story of clearks in Minn. and other locales that refuse to ring up alcohol and pork. I don’t know what’s up with those folks and what the diff is with my local grocers place.

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32 Comments

  1. Charlie says:

    We have the same thing in Britain. The Muslim visitors to hospitals who refuse to wash their hands, as the handwash contains alcohol which is against their religion. But what do they use in hospitals throughout the Middle East? Alcohol based handwashes of course! According to the Qu’ran it is only forbidden to become intoxicated through alcohol, yet Muslim shop assistants here have to get someone else to put alcohol through the till lest they defile themselves by touching it! Yet many Muslims run off-licences in Britain.

    As for pork, only eating it is forbidden, yet a woman in Britain was forced to remove her porcelain pigs from the window as local Muslims were forced to walk past her collection on their way to prayer! Yet many Muslims run shops that sell bacon, sausages etc…

    The differences are caused by the preachers and immans who tell their followers that they shouldn’t have to deal with alcohol, they shouldn’t have to deal with or view pork and that to do so is an insult to their religion. So they refuse, and of course, no one more knowledgeable corrects them.

  2. Alfie says:

    Thanks for the comment Charlie.

    So they refuse, and of course, no one more knowledgeable corrects them.

    I could spend hours on that. I’ve seen stories on both sides of that point. Sadly in many of the places in the West there is a concerted effort by extremists to assure ignorance. The simplest example is the wahhabists funding etc.

  3. Elric66 says:

    “Sadly in many of the places in the West there is a concerted effort by extremists to assure ignorance.”

    Also a concentrated effort to push traditional islam by the “extremists”. But lets whitewash it because some muslim scanned your pork, all is well now. Never mind the fact that she scanned it seems to be a big deal in the first place.

  4. Alfie says:

    “scanned my pork” sounds dirty haha. This is where you and I have always parted ways or failed to meet though. I am not whitewashing anything though.

  5. Elric66 says:

    How much more proof you you need Fray?

    Here is a typical example in the US

    Muslim woman critical of Gilbert police treatment

    by Nathan Gonzalez – Mar. 23, 2009 07:48 AM
    The Arizona Republic

    The bumper sticker on Lisa Gopalan’s car reads “Islam means peace.”

    But the Muslim woman and former schoolteacher believes her religion gained her the unwanted attention of Gilbert police, who arrested her for DUI when she failed a field sobriety test.

    “I was so humiliated,” said Gopalan, who along with her husband was recently laid off. “I do feel I was racially profiled to an extent. The whole thing was so upsetting. I’m no criminal.”

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/2009/03/23/20090323gr-policestop0325.html

    She is a literally a liar. Islam means submission not peace. Islam isnt a race. And the cop pulled her over because she was swerving. But dont worry, the Muslim Brotherhood’s proxy CAIR is on the case.

    Shall I go over the rioting muslims in Malmo Sweden too?

  6. Alfie says:

    Where do I start ? Lisa is a trouble maker. She’s a convert and has a very fucked up worldview. She relishes the chance to prove something improper/illegal happened and I’m pretty sure she’ll lose. Ironically you say CAIR AZ is on the job…she is CAIR AZ

    As for Malmo. Please keep in mind that it likely the protests would’ve occurred without Muslims. Seeing as the communists like the idea of Israel bashing.

  7. wickle says:

    As in most cases, the extremes make news, but most people are pretty normal.

    Naturally, the clerk does her job. That’s why she’s there. How many Muslim cashiers ring up hot dogs, pork chops, bacon, beer, etc. every day? Probably a lot more than make the news by refusing to do so. That’s why your clerk doesn’t get headline a story (well, anywhere except on your blog, of course).

    Most of us non-Muslims have formed an opinion of Islam and Muslims based on very limited and skewed information — because we base it off of what’s interesting enough to make the news.

  8. The Red Pill says:

    There are entire towns that refuse to sell alcohol on Sundays.

    And I’m not seeing any outrage over that.

  9. Elric66 says:

    “Most of us non-Muslims have formed an opinion of Islam and Muslims based on very limited and skewed information”

    And some of us formed an opinion based on the writings in the qur’an, ahadiths, examples of Mo and the imperialistic history of islam. Literally.

  10. Elric66 says:

    “Ironically you say CAIR AZ is on the job…she is CAIR AZ”

    Could be a set up. CAIR loves that type of thing.

    “As for Malmo. Please keep in mind that it likely the protests would’ve occurred without Muslims. Seeing as the communists like the idea of Israel bashing.”

    Again with the white washing. Must be why ambulances need escorts into Malmo, because of the commies. But I do agree that leftists are allies with islam. They do both hate the Jews.

  11. The Red Pill says:

    Elric66: Do you also form your opinions of Christians based on the literal writings of the Bible, and the imperialistic history of Christianity?

  12. Elric66 says:

    “Elric66: Do you also form your opinions of Christians based on the literal writings of the Bible, and the imperialistic history of Christianity?’

    Oh did I touch a nerve? 🙂

    Well if Christians were blowing up, sawing heads off and immigrating to non Christian nations and pushing their religion on their adoptive nation’s society you might be on to something, but thats not happening. So you have anything else besides your multicultural realisms? Shall we compare Christianity’s and islam’s prophet?

  13. The Red Pill says:

    The only nerve you’ve touched is the one that is tired of my fellow Americans basing their opinions of other people on stereotypes and values that aren’t applied to everyone else. It makes us look like a nation of ignorant xenophobes.

    “Well if Christians were blowing up, sawing heads off and immigrating to non Christian nations and pushing their religion on their adoptive nation’s society you might be on to something, but thats not happening.”

    You don’t think Christians have committed violent acts against non-Christians, or migrated to non-Christian lands pushing Christian values onto the population they found there?

    Since you claim to base your opinions on historical facts, you must not be familiar with the history of the Crusades, the discovery of the New World, the Incas, the Aztecs, or the California Indians. All of which were full of violent acts committed by Christians attempting to push their religion onto others.

    And if those things are too far back for you, read up on the Christian values of the Ku Klux Klan.

  14. Elric66 says:

    Didnt take you long to start calling me a xenophobe. I guess you didnt want to compare Mo and Jesus. Most multiculturalists dont because they know its like night and day.

    Well as for the Crusades, they were in response to islams push into Europe and to take back land conquered by the caliphates. I guess in your opinion islam can conquer lands but its not right to take them back.

    Have Christians done things that were bad? Of course but they werent in line with the teachings of Jesus and the NT. Now all the horrible and evil things islam does is in line with the teachings of Mo and the quran and ahadiiths.

    As for Christians forcing their beliefs, well I never heard of dhimmi like laws applied to non Christians like islam does for non muslims.

    Oh and how screwed up a “religion” is islam when its the only one that sanctions death for muslims that decide to leave it? Got an excuse for that as well?

    “And if those things are too far back for you, read up on the Christian values of the Ku Klux Klan.”

    The KKK arent practicing Christian values but funny you rant on the KKK when more people per year are killed in the name of islam than people killed by the KKK in their entire history. Not defending the KKK, they are a vile organization.

  15. steph says:

    There have been lot of stories in the gutter press about Muslims refusing to touch alcohol in jobs where they would be required to but they’ve all proved to be utterly untrue, for a start touching alcohol isn’t haram in Islam, it only is in Wahhabism. There are some Muslim owned supermarkets that don’t sell alcohol but I’ve never seen Muslims refuse to handle alcohol in a supermarket that do. It’s not very likely because any Muslim who felt that strongly about it wouldn’t be working in a place selling alcohol.

    There have been lots of false stories like that in the British media, like the one about Muslims having their hospital beds turned to face Mecca five times a day by staff so they could pray. The truth was that some terminal ill patients had their beds turned towards Mecca as they were dying but that was it. We experienced the same thing when I was at secondary school, some of the dinner ladies complained that school was providing Catholics with fish suppers on Friday, they didn’t complain about the vegetarian alternative they had to cook every day just the fish supper. Most of these anti-Muslim stories are the same overblown or made up bullshit. The odd extremist here or there isn’t representative of the entire or even majority of Muslims living in the UK or America.

  16. steph says:

    A girl living in California could get married, have children, have an abortion, get divorced, get a lesbian civil partnership, be a porn star or stripper, join the military and fight in a war, go to jail and get the death penalty at 18 years of age but she couldn’t get served alcohol.

  17. The Red Pill says:

    Well, actually I haven’t called you anything. If you chose to take what I said and apply it to yourself, then that is your own issue.

    I have no problems with comparisons of Mohammad and Jesus. I am not an Islamic apologist, by any means. I know the history well, and I am confident that most of the things that you find appauling about Mohammad, I do as well.

    Actually, the Crusades were just as much, if not more, about giving landless knights something to do other than rape and pillage Europe. Instead, they were sent to rape and pillage the Holy Land. And the last I checked, Jerusalem wasn’t in Europe.

    “As for Christians forcing their beliefs, well I never heard of dhimmi like laws applied to non Christians like islam does for non muslims.”

    Which is probably why you never responded to my reply about “dry towns” not selling liquer on Sundays. Sounds like forcing religious beliefs onto a population, to me. More examples are: The Pledge of Allegiance. Taking an oath of office. Defending yourself in court. Bibles and “God” are involved in all of those things.

    Look, I’m not saying Islam is perfect, just as you aren’t saying Christianity is. I am just trying to get you to see that you are overgeneralizing a religion that has many different sects, beliefs, practices, and worshipers. And that the country we live in is full of Christian values being forced onto people.

  18. wickle says:

    Yeah, Steph, but you gotta admit, that’s one heck of a year she had … probably no time to stop for a drink! 😉

    Seriously, you do raise a good point there. Much of the logic that I’ve heard behind having the drinking age at 21 is because of college students, who are away from home at 18, and we want them to grow up a bit more before letting them legally drink.

    A very strong case could be made that that’s weak logic, and you do a great job of noting the overall intellectual inconsistency of that policy. That, and college students have been known, on occasion, to indulge in some fermented beverages without the benefit of legality.

  19. Elric66 says:

    “Actually, the Crusades were just as much, if not more, about giving landless knights something to do other than rape and pillage Europe. Instead, they were sent to rape and pillage the Holy Land. And the last I checked, Jerusalem wasn’t in Europe.”

    LOL That was hilarious. I guess the emperor of the Byzantine Empire begging the Pope for help was actually to ask some landless knights to rape and pillage the Middle East. I guess the muslims pushing into Europe from Spain and Southern Italy centuries before the 1st Crusades meant nothing either.

    “I am just trying to get you to see that you are overgeneralizing a religion that has many different sects, beliefs, practices, and worshipers.”

    No, I judge it by what is written in the qur’an, ahadiths, its history and the examples of its prophet Mohammed. Even the title Dhimmi? Dummy? should give one a clue what islam is all about. And as for alcohol not being sold on Sunday, well you could always move to a different town if you dont like it. Now why dont you address that islam sanctions death if you leave islam. A bit more serious than not being able to buy a bottle of wine on Sunday dont you think?

    “The odd extremist here or there isn’t representative of the entire or even majority of Muslims living in the UK or America.”

    No Steph, we all now its the Jews and the white Catholic Poles that are the bad guys, right?

  20. The Red Pill says:

    History, like people, is not made up of binaries. Everything you say happened did. And they were important factors. However, that does not effect the accuracy of my statement.

    But don’t take my word for it, take your pick of the 14,000 links that support my claim.

    Here are some nice quotes from 3 different medieval French histories on the 1099 conquest of Jerusalem. Feel free to post some Islamic histories that show wholesale slaughter of entire populations based on their religious beliefs and quest for booty.

    How astonishing it would have seemed to you to see our squires and footmen, after they had discovered the trickery of the Saracens, split open the bellies of those they had just slain in order to extract from the intestines the bezants which the Saracens had gulped down their loathsome throats while alive!

    Piles of heads, hands, and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one’s way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the Temple of Solomon…. [M]en rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies

    The battle raged throughout the day, so that the Temple was covered with their blood. When the pagans had been overcome, our men seized great numbers, both men and women, either killing them or keeping them captive, as they wished. On the roof of the Temple a great number of pagans of both sexes had assembled…. At dawn our men cautiously went up to the roof of the Temple and attacked Saracen men and women, beheading them with naked swords.

    By contrast, Muslims used to tax people of other faiths that lived in Muslim, not kill them wholesale. Dead men don’t pay taxes.

    “No, I judge it by what is written in the qur’an, ahadiths, its history and the examples of its prophet Mohammed.”

    Which hadiths? There are literally hundreds. It’s history as told by whom? Even the sources you claim to base your opinions on are extremely varied. If you’re getting these binaries from them, then you are either not interpretting them fairly, or you don’t have a wide enough variety in your study.

    The Koran says not to have succession based on lineage. But millions of Shia believe otherwise. The Koran says not to pray to idols or dead men. But millions of Sufis believe otherwise. If Muslims are able to find varying interpretations of their own faith, how come you are unable to do so? My speculation is because you are not an objective observer. You approach the subject with bais, so you take from it what you want and ignore what doesn’t fit into your predesigned framework.

    “And as for alcohol not being sold on Sunday, well you could always move to a different town if you dont like it.”

    So your answer to people being forced into recognizing Christian values is to leave their homes and move? It’s still faith-based values being legislated onto a population. People shouldn’t have to move from their homes to excersize their constitutional rights.

    “Now why dont you address that islam sanctions death if you leave islam. ”

    I am not a Muslim, so I don’t have the answer to that.

    Not being a Christian, I don’t have the answer to this Bible verse, either. Perhaps you can interpret it for me.

    “Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.” (Deuteronomy 17:12)

    Are you prepared to hold the Bible up to the same literal standards you hold the Koran to?

    Now why don’t you address that Christianity has a rich imperialistic and violent history in its conquest of the New World. You should be equally appauled. That is, if you do hold Christianity up to the same standards you hold other religions up to.

    Which was my original question.

  21. Elric66 says:

    “Now why dont you address that islam sanctions death if you leave islam. ”

    I am not a Muslim, so I don’t have the answer to that.

    LOL That says it all about you. Bash Christianity, whitewash islam but when I ask a very important question about islam and why it sanctions death for those who leave it, you dodge it.

    “Are you prepared to hold the Bible up to the same literal standards you hold the Koran to?”

    Well when you have world wide Christian jihad like with islam, we can talk.

    “Now why don’t you address that Christianity has a rich imperialistic and violent history in its conquest of the New World. You should be equally appauled. That is, if you do hold Christianity up to the same standards you hold other religions up to.”

    Why should I? Christianity isnt an imperialistic religion and yes men of Christian faith have done bad things but they are counter to the teachings and examples of Jesus while these jihadists today would have Mohammed blessings.

    You see Jesus was a man of love, peace, compassion and treated everyone with respect.

    Now Mo on the other had was a warlord, a thief, a murderer, a pedophile and founded a religion that specifically requires its believers to treat fellow believers totally different than non believers.

    “By contrast, Muslims used to tax people of other faiths that lived in Muslim, not kill them wholesale. Dead men don’t pay taxes.”

    Gee why dont you ask the 60 million Hindus that were slaughtered when islam pushed eastward. Probably because Hindus dont fall under dhimmi laws. Of course you knew that right? And of course you know that if dhimmis refuse to pay the jizya and refuse to convert, they are sanctioned to be killed right?

  22. The Red Pill says:

    What you call “bashing” and “whitewashing” I call pointing out historical similarities. If holding Christianity to your historical standards of Islam is “bashing” it, then so be it. That just means you find those things I have pointed out to be appauling. You just aren’t ready to admit it, even to yourself.

    You seriously believe that 1,500,000,000 are all out to get us? You are holding a massive demographic responsible for the actions of its very small minority. They can’t even agree to interpreations of their own faith. yet you’re convinced they have worldwide concensus in their hatred of us. That is what is hilarious.

    I have already shown you numerous texts and historical facts that prove Christianity to have an imperialistic history of “yes-men.” And your inability or unwillingness to hold that proof up to your own standards gives you no alternative but to answer “why should I?” when I challenge you to respond to it.

    You have “dodged” a lot more of my questions in this discussion than I have “dodged” of yours. Based on your replies, you are obviously not willing to hold Christianity up to the same standards you hold other religions up to.

    So, just as my responses to your questions tells you a lot about me, your lack of responses to my questions tells me a lot about you.

    You are willing to “bash” another religion, based on its writings and history, while “whitewashing” or simply ignoring the writings and history of (what I assume is) your own religion.

  23. Elric66 says:

    “That just means you find those things I have pointed out to be appauling. You just aren’t ready to admit it, even to yourself.”

    No, I dont find the Crusades appalling but a justified action to imperial islam.

    “You seriously believe that 1,500,000,000 are all out to get us? ”

    No, not every muslim takes the qur’an serious like their warlord prophet did. But what percentage do? Even at 1 percent thats 15 million.

    “yet you’re convinced they have worldwide concensus in their hatred of us.”

    No, the qur’an and ahadiths do. You trying to put workds in my mouth?

    “I have already shown you numerous texts and historical facts that prove Christianity to have an imperialistic history of “yes-men.””

    Errr……no you didnt but you did ignore the vast difference between the Christian and muslim prophet.

    “Based on your replies, you are obviously not willing to hold Christianity up to the same standards you hold other religions up to.”

    How about we hold each religion to its own standards, would that be fair because Christianity would fail miserably because Jesus had high standards and Mo well…muslims basically can do anything they want. Lie, steal, kill, beat women, enslave non muslims, molest little girls etc because thats the standard Mo lived by. You all for that?

    “You are willing to “bash” another religion, based on its writings and history, while “whitewashing” or simply ignoring the writings and history of (what I assume is) your own religion.”

    When you can start quoting Jesus justifying the horrible things like allah commands muslims to do then you will have a case. Otherwise you are just a multiculturalist that has no pride in Western culture because you view all cultures as equal, one no better than others.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510364,00.html

  24. Elric66 says:

    Church moved for muslims

    Church leaders are spending 100,000 GBP moving a chapel half a mile – so it doesn’t offend Muslims.

    The Orthodox church was built on the site of a derelict mosque in Divic, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and is being taken away to improve relations with local Muslim worshippers.

    Builders will spend a week driving the church to its new location on a massive low loader truck.

    http://www.austriantimes.at/index.php?id=12018

  25. Alfie says:

    Wow.
    Of course lets look at how that church got there….
    dateline 1994

    Up through a ghostly terrain of smashed and ransacked former Muslim homes, Branko Grujic led the way, intent on showing off his crowning contribution to what he calls the victory of Serbian Orthodox Christianity over Islam in Bosnia. NYT

    And from the AFP

    The mosque was destroyed by Serb forces who captured large swathes of eastern Bosnia at the outbreak of the conflict, expelling almost all Croats and Muslims.
    The cost of the church’s relocation are estimated at some 200,000 euros (more than 300,000 dollars), local Orthodox priest Rade Tesic told SRNA.
    The funds would be provided by the local Islamic community, according to an agreement reached in April after years of talks over the issue, he added.

  26. Elric66 says:

    Ill tell you what, when they move the al-asqa mosque that was built over a Jewish temple, then Ill say its ok. Never mind on how muslims came to Bosnia in the first place. How about the muslims give back the Hagia Sophia? You really want to play that game Fray?

  27. The Red Pill says:

    If the Crusades were a response to imperial Islam, then why were Jews killed in the People’s Crusade that preceded the First Crusade? They were responding to the Pope’s call to kill anyone not Christian. Sounds like “yes-men” to me. You ignore this fact, while shedding tears over the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

    Why did Pope Urban II send 60,000 Christian knights (more “yes-men”) to the East, when the Byzantine Emperor only asked for an elite force of mercenaries. And why did that Emperor screw them at Nicea, going no further, if he wanted their help recapturing the entire Holy Land?

    And I have shown you what they did when they got to Jerusalem. They slaughtered Jews, Christians, and Muslims. EVERYONE in the city was killed. That’s not a response to Islamic imperialism. But keep worrying about that Jewish temple. Nevermind the people who worshipped in it that were slaughtered. Those details don’t fit into your framework.

    The Muslims who invaded Byzantium were nomadic Seljuk Turks. Yes, they became Muslim. But do you think they lost their nomadic Turk ways as soon as they bowed to Allah? Their conquest has absolutely nothing to do with Islamic imperialism, and everything to do with nomadic tribal imperialism.

    As for the words of Jesus, let me remind you that, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the Pope is concidered the representative of Christ on earth.

    If you are going to claim to use History to support your claims, you need to look at the entire history. Not just the parts that help you make your point.

    But I know your reply already—“why should I?” It’s a nice shelter for your xenophobic idea that Western culture is better than others, rather than simply different.

    Alfie, nice post. Good to hear those evil Muslim women didn’t attack you as they scanned your meat.

  28. Elric66 says:

    “It’s a nice shelter for your xenophobic idea that Western culture is better than others, rather than simply different.”

    Thats right it is. I stand for something, you stand for nothing. Sad actually

    “If the Crusades were a response to imperial Islam, then why were Jews killed in the People’s Crusade that preceded the First Crusade? They were responding to the Pope’s call to kill anyone not Christian. Sounds like “yes-men” to me. You ignore this fact, while shedding tears over the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.”

    You still didnt explain why Islam was pushing into Europe centuries before the 1st Crusade. Why was that? Got an answer? And the Pope didnt tell them to kill all non Christians. In fact when some of the crusaders did in fact go rougue, he issued orders to stop it.

    “The Muslims who invaded Byzantium were nomadic Seljuk Turks. Yes, they became Muslim. But do you think they lost their nomadic Turk ways as soon as they bowed to Allah? Their conquest has absolutely nothing to do with Islamic imperialism, and everything to do with nomadic tribal imperialism.”

    They were allready muslims and yes they did. Islam comes before any other traditions.

    You still havent touch on the comparison between Mo and Jesus, why is that? But then, you wont touch apostasy laws or islamic occupation of Spain centuries before the first Crusade either.

  29. Alfie says:

    Comments are now closed.I may very well take up this issue on Friday

Comments are closed.